brake pedal travel

HOW TO FIX EXCESSIVE BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL

What Is Excessive Brake Pedal Travel?

Excessive brake pedal travel happens when you feel your pedal sinking rapidly while braking, or sitting lower than usual when activating your vehicle’s brakes. This can happen due to wobbly discs knocking pistons back or air in the braking system.

Performing DIY brake repair to fix excessive brake pedal travel can be a tedious task. Follow the steps below to diagnose and repair your sinking brakes.

How to Fix Excessive Brake Pedal Travel

1. Diagnose the Problem . To diagnose issues with the master cylinder, the first thing you need to do is remove the lines, install brass or plastic plugs into the outlets, and apply the brakes. What happens when you apply the brakes will tell you what issue your vehicle is having. You can continue this process of elimination by isolating each wheel.

2. Use Your Parking Brake. If you don’t typically engage your parking brake, the parking brake can be key in figuring out if your car is suffering from excessive brake pedal travel. If the parking brake doesn’t properly engage, that generally means a low pedal.

3. Bleed the Brakes. Bleeding your brakes is an important step in brake pedal travel repair and other brake issues. Use a jelly jar half full of brake fluid and a short hose to depress your brake pedal.

While depressing the pedal, rotate the star wheel to lose up the clearance. Then, go back one click when the wheel scrapes. It’s best to have a partner on hand when bleeding your brakes.

4. Bleed the Master Cylinders . After bleeding the brakes, bleeding the master cylinders is the next step. In traditional systems, you begin with the longest line in the circuit first, and go from the right rear, left rear, right front, and left the front. In diagonally split systems, the order is right rear, left front, left rear, and right front. Flush out the bleeder valves, and finally, remove the air from your master cylinder.

If you’re not sure which type of system your vehicle is or are unaware of the proper tools needed to fix excessive brake pedal travel, it’s best to bring your vehicle into Brake Works.

With two convenient locations with great weekend hours, getting proper brake maintenance is simpler than you think. Contact our team of certified specialists to schedule an appointment.

Erika Suarez

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Dealing With A Low Brake Pedal

"Honey, can I borrow your car?" No problem. She tosses you the keys. But at the first stop sign you draw a startled breath--the pedal's going, going, almost gone! There's even a little dent in the carpet under the pedal. Didn't she notice? Well, no she didn't. Typically, low-pedal trouble develops so gradually that people don't realize it.

Hydraulic brakes have been around since Duesenberg introduced them in 1921, but apparently a long history is no defense against troubles. And professionals and do-it-yourselfers alike are often guilty of misdiagnosis--they blame the master cylinder, though it is seldom the culprit.

There are only two plausible reasons for a low pedal: air in the system; and excessive movement between linings and rotors or drums (due to lack of adjustment, an out-of-round drum, or a wobbly disc that's knocking the pistons back so that there's extra space to take up before braking action begins).

Isolation You can find out all you need to know about the master cylinder by removing the lines, screwing brass or plastic plugs into the outlets, and then applying the brakes. If the pedal's high and hard now, the master has been properly bled and its seals are okay. The pedal would sink gradually if it were bypassing--that is, if fluid were finding its way around the sliding seals. You've also confirmed that the booster is okay. Reattach the lines.

Continue the process of elimination by clamping hoses to isolate each wheel. Use a suitable rounded-jaw tool, either the locking-pliers type or one of those inexpensive J-hooks with a knurled screw. Releasing one at a time should locate the problem.

Use That Parking Brake If you never engage the parking brake, self-adjustment of the pads and rotor simply won't occur, and that means a low pedal. Another impediment to adjustment is corrosion and contamination of the piston, cylinder and self-adjustment hardware. So, change your habits and start using the parking brake every time you leave the car, and overhaul or replace those calipers if they're not just right. If the parking brake isn't used regularly, one of these days a parking lot attendant will apply it and your car will be immobilized until those corroded cables and other seized parts are replaced.

Beat The Drums Rear drum brakes can cause a low pedal, too. Seized star-wheel screws and otherwise inoperative self-adjusters are practically an epidemic, and you're risking trouble if you don't replace the hardware when replacing shoes. At the very least, clean the star-wheel threads and treat them to a coating of antiseize compound.

There's another factor that's usually not recognized: drivers who never stop aggressively enough in Reverse to ratchet the self-adjusters. It's a good idea to stomp on the brake pedal every week or so while backing up--preferably in a deserted lot or other safe place.

What about the drums themselves? They're frequently out of round, leaving excess shoe-to-drum clearance and, of course, causing pulsation.

The old-fashioned, low-tech way to bleed brakes is to use a jelly jar half full of brake fluid, a short piece of hose, and a patient helper to depress the brake pedal.

Depress the tab while you rotate the star wheel to close up the clearance. When the wheel scrapes lightly, go back one click.

Brake drums will be marked clearly as to how far they can be machined safely to remove out of round.

Bubble Trouble For all practical purposes, brake fluid is incompressible. Air, on the other hand, can be squeezed down into a smaller-than-natural volume, and its presence will disrupt the operation of any hydraulic system. It promotes internal corrosion, too. Ergo, it must be expelled.

The most common cause of pedal problems is failure to bench bleed a new master cylinder. Screw the supplied fittings into the outlets and place the tips of the tubes in the fluid in the reservoir. Clamp one of the master's mounting ears in a vise--don't grip around the cylinder--so the unit is as level as possible. Use a rod or drift to stroke the piston slowly. Wait at least 15 seconds between strokes to allow the low-pressure chamber to release all its bubbles and fill completely. Keep stroking until there's no more evidence of air at the ports and tube tips.

If the car has a replacement cylinder that somebody didn't bench bleed, you might be able to do it with the master in place, provided you can jack the rear of the vehicle high enough to get the cylinder to be level. Again, pump slowly and allow time between strokes.

An important precaution to observe during any bleeding procedure that involves pumping the pedal is to limit pedal travel. You don't want the delicate lips of the master cylinder's piston seals to ride so deep in the bore that they encounter rough corrosion or deposits, which can scratch them. Just throw a chunk of 2 x 4 on the floor under the pedal.

When it comes to the bleeders at the wheels, most people just open them and let the fluid squirt. Not only will this result in slippery puddles on the floor, the fluid can shoot farther than you might expect--think about the 2500-plus psi of line pressure on some ABS-equipped cars. Brake fluid is a pretty effective paint remover, and it really burns when you get it in your eye. Wear eye protection.

One convenient setup is a tube and transparent bottle kept half full of fresh fluid. There are also inexpensive 1-man bleeder hoses that contain a 1-way valve to eliminate the possibility of air being drawn back in when you release the pedal.

The bleeder cups and hoses that are often included in manual vacuum pump kits, such as those from Mighty Vac, work well. Once again, you can see what you're getting, and you don't have to keep climbing into the seat to pump the pedal.

You should also be aware of special procedures. For example, on Teves Mark II ABS systems, you can't get fluid to the rear brakes unless you turn the key on and then apply the pedal slightly. Be sure to check the shop manual if your vehicle has an antilock braking system.

Finally, there's the bleeding sequence. Since you're supposed to do the longest line in the circuit first, the traditional order is right rear, left rear, right front and left front. But with the diagonally split systems you'll find mostly on fwd cars, the order is right rear, left front, left rear then right front. ABS-equipped cars may have special procedures to follow.

Bubbles collecting in high spots in the brake system need to be removed by opening the bleeder valves to flush them out.

Bench bleed a master cylinder to get air out before installing it into the vehicle.

How It Works: The Dual Master Cylinder

Whether you call it the dual, split or tandem master cylinder, it has been used on every car sold in this country since 1967, although Cadillac had it in '62. Even so, most people don't understand its construction and operation. A typical modern specimen is of the composite variety--aluminum with a plastic reservoir--but iron 1-piece units are still around on older vehicles. Two pistons ride in the bore, and here's where we encounter some potentially confusing terminology. The rear piston is the primary, the one in the front is the secondary. This apparent misnaming resulted because the rear piston is the first to receive the signal from the brake pedal, so it does make a certain amount of sense. Kind of. Each piston has a primary cup seal at its front and a secondary at its rear. In normal braking, the pushrod from the booster forces the primary piston forward. No pressure is created until the primary seal covers the compensating or vent port from the reservoir, but once it does fluid is trapped in the chamber between the pistons and it becomes a solid column. Pressure is routed from this chamber to two wheels. A combination of the trapped fluid and the primary piston coil spring bears on the secondary piston, to which the line to the other two wheels is attached. The replenishing ports allow fluid to move freely between the chambers behind both pistons' primary cups and the reservoir, determined by demand and expansion and contraction from temperature changes. If a hose lets go or a saboteur has sawed through one of the brake lines, the other half will still provide a means of decelerating the vehicle, albeit with a lower pedal and reduced stopping power. This protective function is, of course, the dual master's reason for being.

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Find a manual, troubleshooting: common brake issues and causes, you are here.

Troubleshooting your car's brakes is actually pretty easy, and is simply the result of having the right knowledge combined with an intelligent, systematic approach. And once you've worked out what's wrong, fixing it is often easy with the help of your Haynes manual .

The brakes on your car are probably the most important system, and due to the difficult job they do and how often they are used, they are also one of the most likely to wear and need service. Even when everything is working properly with your brakes, and nothing is worn out, they can suddenly start making disconcerting noises or develop a shudder under use. Modern cars use a power assist (vacuum or otherwise) hydraulic system, with disc brakes on the front wheels, and discs or drums on the back. All modern cars come with sophisticated antilock braking systems (ABS) and brake based stability control, which complicates some aspects of troubleshooting and repair, but those systems will inform you when there is a problem and default to the old, simple system. There is also typically a separate, mechanical parking/emergency brake, either cable or electrically operated, that works only on the rear wheels.

Before we get into the specifics of brakes and their problems, you may want to look at some of the basic rules for troubleshooting in general, as written in the beginning of every Haynes manual: Troubleshooting 101

Much like our earlier examination of clutch issues, there are two general failure modes for brakes: They aren't engaging well enough, or they aren't disengaging. Then there are minor issues such as brake squealing, brake shudder/pulsing, burning smells, leaking fluids, pulling to one side, etc.

Brakes not working well

Even today, your brakes can fail completely, but there are failsafes built into the system to prevent that from happening in most cases. Every car since 1968 has had redundant hydraulic systems, not to mention the parking/emergency brake, to prevent complete brake failure. The master cylinder actually contains two pistons and seals, which in simpler systems controlled the front and back brakes separately, or the diagonally opposite wheels, so at worse you would only lose half your brakes.

Soft Pedal  - The brake pedal is easy to push but there is less braking.

• Low brake fluid
• Air in brake fluid
• Bad master cylinder
• Bad caliper/wheel cylinder
• Blown brake line
• Bad residual valve
• Fluid leak in system
• Boiled brake fluid
• Bad wheel bearing

The first thing to check with any brake issue is the fluid level and condition in the master cylinder reservoir. If there is a leak somewhere the fluid level may be so low as to make even the redundant system ineffective. If there is fluid, but it is below the full indication, that may indicate that the friction material on the pads or shoes,or the rotors or drums themselves, may be worn beyond effectiveness.

If there is plenty of fluid in evidence, check if it is hot; repeated hard use, towing, descending a steep hill, or a dragging caliper can boil the fluid. DOT 3 brake fluid should not boil until it gets above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, but old brake fluid that has absorbed water can boil at as little as 284 degrees, which is why it needs to be changed every other year.

Brake hydraulics are a sealed system, so there should not be air in the lines, but if after service you have a sponge pedal that is the most likely cause. A bad master cylinder can introduce air into the lines, as can a failure at a caliper or wheel cylinder. The residual valve (often in the master cylinder or proportioning valve) keeps a small amount of pressure in the brake lines so the pedal doesn't have to travel so far until initial engagement; a failure here can be difficult to pinpoint.

Another uncommon cause of a soft pedal and long travel, is a bad wheel bearing, which is unrelated to the brakes except for being in the vicinity of the rotors. The failing bearing allows the hub to move around, effectively pushing the brake pads back into the caliper as far as it can.

Hard Pedal  - It takes much more pressure to get the same amount of pedal travel and braking force.

• Bad power booster
• Vacuum hose leak
• Bad check valve
• Collapsed vacuum hose
• Seized caliper
• Extremely worn brake pads

Most instances of a hard pedal come down to a failure in the power boost system, whether vacuum based or hydro-boost (used mostly on diesels, we won't be covering it here). The power booster uses engine vacuum to assist your leg when applying the brakes, and is nearly universal in modern cars. If it the booster, check valve, or vacuum hose is bad, it will likely also cause a vacuum leak and rough engine idle as well, but an engine with a bad valve or head gasket can also cause low vacuum which can effect the brake boost.

Another cause of a hard brake pedal can be a brake caliper that is stuck or seized. Typically a seized caliper or pads will cause a burning smell, a pull to one side, and dragging at one wheel, but it is possible for it to stick without those, and effectively lessening your braking by nearly half (if it is a front wheel, which provide 75% of the braking). Wearing your pads down to the metal baking plates will also result in a very "wooden" brake pedal as well, as there is not as much friction when it is metal on metal, and they have to clamp harder to slow you down; the horrible grinding noise is usually an indication before the hard pedal.

Brakes hanging up/dragging

The other major way brakes act up is when they fail to disengage completely in one way or another. A common symptom of this type of braking issue is a burning smell from the amount of heat the hung up brake generates. Seldom does this result in a car that won't move at all, but driving with the brakes dragging is unsafe and will result in even more damage in a short amount of time if not repaired.

Some of the cause of brakes dragging on one or more wheels can be:

• Seized caliper/pads
• Seized parking brake cable
• Rusted rotor/drum
• Clogged master cylinder return hole
• Pinched/collapsed brake line

A seized caliper or brake pads that have become jammed in the caliper is probably the most common failure of this type, and can occur due to age, rust, and salt used on winter roads. Luckily, changing a brake caliper is not a hard job, and can be accomplished in about an hour. The same factors can cause cable operated parking brakes to jam up as well, requiring a replacement of the parking brake cable. The way to prevent these issues is to avoid driving in deep puddles, or areas where salt is used on the roads, but if that isn't an option, be sure to clean the wheels and underside of the car often in winter.

Typically rusted rotors or drums only happen when a car has been sitting for a long period. If you are trying to bring a project car back to life, but can't get it to roll, chances are this is the problem.

A clogged fluid return hole in the master cylinder can cause all four wheels to drag, because the fluid sent to the wheels when you press the pedal can't return and let the pressure off. In a similar vein, a pinched hard brake line, or a rubber line that has started to come apart internally can cause the same problem, though localized to one or two wheels.

Other brake issues

• Shudder/vibration/pulsing under hard or repeated braking - This is caused by warped/bent rotors, or sometimes just from a localized buildup of pad material on the rotor surface. Resurfacing the rotors, grinding them smooth and flat again, can fix the issue if it isn't too bad, but often warped rotors got that way because they were overheated, and they will warp again when heated.
• Squealing/howling/squeaking noise  - Typically, an annoying high pitched noise coming from the brakes is the metal "wear indicator" tabs, meant to alert you when there is less than 25% of the pad left. Sometimes brakes can become noisy because of a glaze on the pads from stop and go traffic, which can be fixed with a few hard applications of the brakes to clean it off. Finally, because of the different friction materials, manufacturer tolerances, and random wear factors, pads can suddenly start making noise because they resonate in the range they vibrate at during use. Anti-squeal paste tries to fix this by sticking the pad to the caliper piston, raising the resonance outside of this range.
• Sinking pedal  - If while sitting at a stop you find the pedal slowly sinking to the floor with your foot on it, you have a master cylinder that is just starting to go bad, or a leak somewhere in the system. But if no leak can be found, it is most likely just one of the rubber seals withing the master cylinder allowing fluid and pressure to sneak by.

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brake pedal travel

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So I recently got this car and have replaced rotors and pads but not touched the hydraulics. Fluid level is good and the color is still pretty clear. The brakes work well and have decent feel. The weird thing is at a stop the pedal goes basically all the way to the floor. It doesn't just fall at a steady rate, but if I push hard after I've stopped it goes down further. It never releases the brake, the car never rolls and if I drive it feels fine. Is this normal with these vehicles or is the master starting to go on me? I know different cars have different pedal feel. Just curious what others have noticed.  

Subarus are known to have spongy brake pedal, my 3rd gen is similar. I also just replaced brakes and had a soft pedal after removing some fluid because of compressing all 6 pistons. I was worried about having to bleed them at first. After letting idle and pumping the brakes a few times it improved. Now after about 200 miles it feels great. It is still a bit on the soft side for my liking but some of that is likely firewall flex, a common complaint with all Subarus in addition to spongy pedal. There are master cylinder brace kits available to help alleviate the issue, which can get worse with spirited driving and extreme braking duties. How long ago was brake service done? Were they bled? Is it better or worse than before?  

No bleeding from me, I don't think the PO did anything. It was basically out of rear brakes when I bought it and the fronts where half gone. I'm sure the PO had pads thrown on the front and that's it.  

I've had several Subies but mostly high performance models IE STis and WRX and they've never felt quite like this. My old 99 outback is kinda crappy on the brakes but that's because they're tiny. LOL  

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Brake pedal travel

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Have a 2011 Heritage The rear brake pedal has way to much travel , I know this is a problem but what is the fix for it.  

Does your bike have ABS ?  

no it don't have ABS  

My 2011 Heritage has ABS Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk  

OK then I would try bleeding the rear brake at the caliper.  

was thinking of that but don't know how air would get in unless fluid is low I don't see a leak Going to switch out the fluid when I try this I see it is needed every 2 years  

Someone could have changed the brake light switch and gotten air in the system.  

Plenty of material left on the rear pads? Is the caliper freed up and operating normally?  

Check your pad thickness. It can be done on the bike with a flashlight and some contortion or mirror. I forgot the spec. HD uses for min. thickness, but it is about the thickness of a credit card! I replace mine way before that.  

I don't know if you bought a used or new Bike or how many miles the Breaks have on them. Most people use the Rear Break to stop. Me I use the Front because it's a lot easier to replace the PADS in the Front. Anyway to much travel is the first sign you need to check the Brake Pads. Probably your a few miles away from hearing the Rotors grinding. First I would Pull those Pads off and check them. When Harley assembles the bikes they put the right amount of Fluid in the Reservoirs, as the Break Pads ware the Fluid level will go down in the Reservoir causing Travel. If you fill up the Reservoir and you need new brake pads, you will not be able to compress the Brake Caliper Hydrophilic Plunger. Also to accomplish that task use a big C Clamp. That's what I would do, Good Luck!  

Ok I changed the fluid in the rear brakes and used a brake bleader pump on it. I have brakes I did notice when the pump was sucking out the old fluid that a single air bubble Had to be the problem How it got in there thow I have no clue. Thanks guys It a easy fix and now ill be changing the fluid out once a year The fluid was bad looked stringy I know I have never changed it in the 3 years I had the bike. Now should the front fluid be changed also It works fine but is old fluid also. Thanks again for the advice and tips  

Yes do the front and avoid problems down the road.  

Harley spec is to change fluid every 2 years. There's even a note about it related to the abs recall, that if brakes are not flushed every 2 years, the abs recall is basically voided (may have this wrong, so check the info for yourself). If you've owned the bike for 3 years, then change the front fluid and check pads while you're down there. From my 2014 service manual, min pad thickness is 16 thousandths. Eff that, that's way too thin! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk  

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