Base Summer Punk Fest 2024

  • Most popular artists worldwide
  • Trending artists worldwide

Rihanna live.

  • Tourbox for artists

Search for events or artists

  • Sign up Log in

Show navigation

  • Get the app
  • Moscow concerts
  • Change location
  • Popular Artists
  • Live streams
  • Popular artists

Saga tour dates 2024

Saga is currently touring across 9 countries and has 27 upcoming concerts.

Their next tour date is at Classic Bowl in Mississauga, after that they'll be at Blind Pig in Ann Arbor.

Currently touring across

  • 🇳🇱 Netherlands
  • 🇨🇭 Switzerland

Saga live.

Upcoming concerts (27) See nearest concert

Classic Bowl

Kultur auf dem Hof

Stadthalle Limburg

Freudenburg

Fritz-wunderlich-halle

Festplatz Lorsch

Riviera Theatre

The Arcada Theatre

Fuglsø Concerter

Folken - Storsalen

Rockefeller

Trädgårn - Göteborg

Gasklockorna

Dru Industriepark

Théâtre le Forum

Grosse Freiheit 36

Festhalle Wörth

Carlswerk Victoria

Festhalle Zweibrücken

LKA Longhorn

Z7 Konzertfabrik

Past concerts

Teatro Ateneo

Concha Acustica de Bello Monte

View all past concerts

Support across tour dates

Poverty's No Crime live.

Recent tour reviews

I was very surprised that the concert was not canceled or even postponed following all the security measures taken in France and in most of the European countries, concerning the Coronavirus! Being a person considered at risk, I did not want to go to this Saga show, which I have been looking forward to for months. Too many risks! not Not only did I deprive myself of the concert of my favorite group and in addition I lost the price of my ticket, more than 100 €. this is the very disappointing experience that I lived for this Saga show...

Best regards

Claudio AIELLO

Report as inappropriate

claudio.aiello’s profile image

It was just like 25 years ago. A great sound and deep base. Just a fantastico show with old photos on the back wall

Amager bio was a perfect concert hall fore SAGA

We loved it!

ivan-kure’s profile image

I have loved this band since I was 12 years old. Unfortunately I never heard them on the radio in the NY area after 1983!! In 2017 I got my passport and drove to CANADA .. by myself to meet them and see my first Saga concert. Just this year alone I have gone back to Canada, NJ and earlier this month- PUNTA CANA!! Last year was Puerto RICO , 2018 was cruise to the edge.. I can hardly wait for CTTE2020. I will always love these guys and this band.. wusb.fm NY/ WAXX TRAXX TO THE MAXX.. ( YOU CAN LISTEN IN FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD BTW --> https://www.facebook.com/groups/347984475712958/)

gwen-sciora’s profile image

  • Most popular charts
  • Campaigns for promoters
  • API information
  • Brand guidelines
  • Community guidelines
  • Terms of use
  • Privacy policy
  • Cookies settings
  • Cookies policy

Get your tour dates seen everywhere.

EMP

  • But we really hope you love us.

Saga River Cruises. Availability & Offers 2024/2025

Contact us for the latest saga river cruise offers, for the latest availibility & offers, please complete the no obligation form below and one of our cruise specialists will be in contact with you shorty.

Your Name (required)

Your Phone Number (required)

Your Email (required)

Your Message

Keep me in the loop with the latest cruise news & exclusive offers from Art of Travel.

About the Saga River Cruises

Discover the enchanting allure of European river cruising with  Saga River Cruises , an esteemed UK-based company specialising in experiences for mature travellers. Each cruise delivers a journey tailored for over-50s, weaving together tranquillity and excitement into an unforgettable holiday. Traverse majestic rivers like the Rhine, Saar, Moselle, Danube, Douro, or the Oder, and dive deep into the heart of European culture and history.

Sail away on one of Saga’s best-sellers, whether it’s exploring the formidable castles of the Rhine, or discovering the sun-dappled vineyards along the Saar and Moselle. Delight in Prague’s architectural splendour or savour the captivating contrasts of Budapest on a Danube adventure. These experiences, and more, await aboard Saga’s varied fleet, including the Spirit of the Danube and the forthcoming Spirit of the Douro.

The all-inclusive approach of Saga ensures an effortless journey. From doorstep to ship deck, every detail is curated for guest comfort. This includes complimentary drinks and dining, gratuities, Wi-Fi, travel insurance, and a portfolio of enriching excursions. Rest easy knowing first-class service accompanies you every step of your holiday.

For the intrepid travellers Saga invites you to explore the winding canals of Dutch waterways, the commanding Rhine, and the sun-kissed Douro aboard the Spirit of the Douro. Saga also proudly offers no-fly river cruises, making their enchanting journeys more accessible than ever.

Why book a Saga River Cruise

All-Inclusive:  Enjoy worry-free travel with Saga’s all-inclusive offering including meals, drinks, Wi-Fi, gratuities, and return travel.

Tailored Experiences for Mature Travellers: specially designed with the over 50s in mind.

Door-to-Door Service:  Experience the convenience of a professional chauffeur service from your doorstep to the departure point and back.

Insurance Included:  With Saga’s comprehensive travel insurance, you’re covered for medical emergencies and cancellations.

Explore Ashore:  Dive into local cultures with included excursions at select ports of call.

video

Saga River Cruise Ships

Spirit of the Danube:

The Spirit of the Danube, an emblem of modern river cruising, elevates comfort, service, and style since its 2022 launch. As it sails the legendary Danube, passengers enjoy an all-inclusive experience enveloped in first-class service and exceptional facilities.

Spirit of the Douro:

Launching in 2024, the Spirit of the Douro is set to illuminate the Douro River, one of the world’s most ancient wine regions. This exquisite river ship pledges to create indelible memories for its guests, symbolising a new era of luxury and elegance.

Spirit of the Rhine:

A symbol of boutique cruising, has delighted guests since its inception. Journeying along the renowned Rhine or the scenic Moselle, this ship offers an entrancing voyage rich with history and astonishing views.

Unveiled in 2023, the Amadeus Elegant effortlessly reaches ports where larger vessels cannot, paving the way for distinctive itineraries. Embarking on a holiday on this ship means diving into the mesmerising landscapes of France and Germany, whether along the picturesque Moselle or the peaceful Saar.

Douro Spirit:

A harmonious blend of elegance and modern amenities, is a premier choice for navigating Portugal’s Douro Valley. Guests can immerse themselves in one of the world’s oldest viticultural areas while enjoying the tranquillity of their holiday aboard this vessel.

With two decades of service to Saga’s guests, the Rex Rheni has curated a legacy of unforgettable river holidays. As it embarks on its final year of operation in 2023, it provides a singular opportunity for one last extraordinary voyage.

Amadeus Provence:

In 2023, the Amadeus Provence sails deep into France’s stunning countryside. Guests can soak in the rustic charm of the Saone and Rhone rivers, ensuring an unmatched holiday experience that’s quintessentially Provencal.

Johannes Brahms:

Compact and stylish, the Johannes Brahms manoeuvres through the lesser-known canals and locks of the Elbe and Oder with ease. This unique ability unveils Europe’s concealed treasures, promising intimate encounters and unforgettable experiences on every holiday.

Saga Cruises Cruise Offers

Medieval gems of the main and rhine.

Saga Cruises aboard Spirit of the Rhine

21 May 2024 for 8 nights

Region/River: Rhine

Itinerary : Amsterdam - Amsterdam - Düsseldorf - Koblenz - Miltenberg - Würzburg - Ba...

Fly Cruise from £2,991pp

Reflections of the moselle.

Saga Cruises aboard Saga MS Amadeus Elegant

22 May 2024 for 7 nights

Region/River: Moselle

Itinerary : Schweich - Schweich - Piesport - Traben-Trarbach - Cochem - Traben-Trarbach...

Fly Cruise from £3,379pp

Lisbon and the heart of the douro.

Saga Cruises aboard Spirit of the Douro

23 May 2024 for 7 nights

Region/River: Douro

Itinerary : Lisbon - Porto - Régua - Porto - Pinhão - Pinhão - Vega de Terrón - Bar...

Fly Cruise from £4,361pp

Douro explorer.

Itinerary : Porto - Porto - Régua - Pinhão - Vega de Terrón - Pinhão - Vega de Terr...

Fly Cruise from £3,929pp

From the danube to the rhine gorge vienna to koblenz.

27 May 2024 for 10 nights

Itinerary : Vienna - Vienna - Melk - Passau - Regensburg - Nuremberg - Bamberg - Würzb...

Fly Cruise from £3,587pp

Capitals of the danube regensburg to budapest.

29 May 2024 for 7 nights

Region/River: Danube

Itinerary : Regensburg - Regensburg - Passau - Vienna - Melk - Vienna - Bratislava - Bu...

Fly Cruise from £2,872pp

Scenic moselle to vibrant amsterdam.

29 May 2024 for 10 nights

Itinerary : Schweich - Schweich - Schweich - Bernkastel-Kues - Traben-Trarbach - Zell -...

Fly Cruise from £4,299pp

30 May 2024 for 7 nights

Fly Cruise from £4,001pp

Why book with art of travel.

We are a team of passionate travel professionals who are dedicated to providing you with first class customer service.

We will ensure you have a personalised and tailored experience through every step of the journey before and after you travel.

Let our team tailor your perfect holiday to your requirements.

Book with confidence, fully protected and fully bonded with ABTA.

Call us today on 02921 20 22 33

Sign in here.

Log into your account in just a few simple steps.

You don't have permission to register

Get the Hottest Deals First!

Refined culture and deep history

A rendezvous with a magnifique experience awaits! As cliché as it sounds, France truly has something for everyone. With over two dozen cities, each with their own nuances of the French culture and contributions to its history, architecture, art and last but not least, the gastronomical delights that the French are famous for throughout the world are yours to explore, experience and fall in love with during your stay. Coast to coast, border to border, there are seemingly endless variations on your French experience to be had. Rolling hills and scenic valleys lined with the fruit of the gods; seaside towns, along sandy beaches with views you just might be sharing with royalty; or maybe snowcapped mountain ranges providing some of the best skiing in the world and an adrenaline rush to match is what you seek. Whatever you decide, France easily makes you feel as if you have stepped out of reality and into the art you learned about and loved since you were a child.

Explore More

saga tours to france

Destination Must-Sees

France ms1

This French capital is one of the world's greatest cities and certainly one of its most beautiful. The Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, Louvre and Orsay Museums, the Champs Elysees, Montmartre and the Sacre Coeur, and many others are all iconic symbols of the "City of Light." Renowned for fabulous dining, high fashion and the French savoir faire, one can keep returning to Paris over a lifetime and still not see everything it has to offer.

Grasse France2022

Sitting on the French Riviera, north of Cannes, is a town that is an olfactory oasis. Set in the hills, Grasse is considered the perfume capital of the world. The town’s fields of jasmine, lavender, and other fragrant flowers are harvested to create essential oils for perfume production. Perfumers (known as a nez, or nose) in Grasse can teach you how to recognize different scents and how top notes, mid notes and the lingering base of a fragrance come together to create a magical aroma.

France ms3

At 370 acres or three-quarters of a square mile, the Principality of Monaco is the world's second smallest sovereign state. It sits in a scenic cliff-side location on the Mediterranean completely surrounded by French territory. This fairy tale of a country is headed by the Prince Sovereign, currently, Albert II, son of Rainier III and American actress Grace Kelly. Discover a place that is just as you imagined with opulent architecture, stunning coastal panoramas, chic boutiques and ritzy cars. Highlights of a visit include the Oceanographic Museum and the Prince's Palace as well as the Cathedral, the final resting place of the Principality's monarchs.

France ms4

A perfectly preserved medieval enclave of Roman origins, Avignon is set in the heart of France's Provence region on the banks of the Rhone River. For 68 years in the 14th century, Avignon was the capital of Christianity, the seat of 10 Popes before the papacy was brought back to Rome in 1377. Avignon has always been a center for art and culture, a designation that continues with its annual Arts Festival, hosting numerous stage productions, film showings, exhibitions, poetry readings, concerts, mime performances, ballets, and more.

Destination Must-Dos

France md1

Small-town touring:

Take a break from the City of Light and get a taste of old world France when spending time in countryside villages that look like they are plucked from a storybook. With many unique villages, each region has its own special qualities for you to experience. Travel through hilltops, rocky coasts and remarkable views while learning about the locals and their lifestyles.

France md2

Omaha Beach:

This was one of the beach sectors assigned to the American landing forces during the invasion of June 6, 1944. It was here that the U.S. First Division fought the bloodiest engagement on D-Day. Go through the towns that make up the sector: St-Laurent, Colleville and Vierville. Set foot on the beach and reflect on that fateful day and cherish the present peace. The American Military Cemetery stands up on the bluff as a testament to the greatest sacrifice that these Americans have made in the name of freedom.

France md3

Dinner at Eiffel Tower:

Put yourself in a scene from a movie; the lights of Paris glitter beneath you as you dine inside one of the world’s most iconic landmarks – the Eiffel Tower. Built in 1889 as part of the World's Fair by the architecture team of Gustave Eiffel, the Eiffel Tower is the symbol of Paris today. Located on the first level is 58 Tour Eiffel, a gourmet restaurant with stunning panoramic views of Paris. Since food is another big part of Parisian culture, the meal is several courses, beautifully displayed and accompanied with wine, coffee and tea.

France md4

Cabaret Theatre performance:

Immerse yourself in the nostalgic side of Parisian culture when taking your seat at a traditional cabaret show. Colorful, crazy, glamourous and intriguing are all used when describing the excitement that is Parisian cabarets. Enjoy your meal while being entertained with a show or play in this festive atmosphere.

Expert Advice

diana

In many places in France, wine costs less than water. Stay hydrated of course but this is also an affordable chance to try many different varieties of the best wine in the world.

France e2

Dinner at the Paradis Latin requires business casual attire; shorts are not allowed. This is your chance to get into the spirit of this exciting night.

France e3

The French eat lunch between noon and 2:30p.m. and dinner between 8-11p.m. Many restaurants close after lunch and do not open again until dinner time.

Featured Tours to France

Brochures that feature our france tours, find a travel agency.

Once you've found the perfect Collette tour, your local travel agent can assist you in making reservations. To find a preferred travel agent in your area, please enter your 5-digit zip code, then click Search.

Enter a Whole or Partial Zip Code

Please tell us everything, we want it all.

We really value your feedback, please be open an honest. Tell us where we can improve, how we can get better. This feedback is anonymous, but if you would like us to get in touch with you regarding an issue provide your email address as part of your feedback and we will get right back to you.

Talk to an Expert

Please fill out the form below, and a Collette Expert will contact you shortly.

  • Yes, I'm a Travel Professional
  • Yes, I am working with a Travel Professional
  • I am traveling with 8 or more travelers

View or Download

saga tours to france

Saga Tours

Monday - Friday : 09:00 - 19:00

Category: France

Unique premium french wine and cheese tasting experience with a certified sommelier in paris.

Unique Premium French Wine And Cheese Tasting Experience With A Certified Sommelier In Central Paris

Please enable javascript in your browser to book

The only Paris French Wine Tasting experience you need to do with a Certified Sommelier

The Only Paris French Wine Tasting Experience You Need To Do 2 Hours With A Certified Sommelier

An Evening of French Wine & Cheese – 2 Hour tasting experience

Paris France

Part of the TTC Family of Brands

GET A QUOTE

DESTINATIONS

WAYS TO TRAVEL

SPECIAL OFFERS

1800 001 778

France Guided Tours and Travel Guide

SEE ALL FRANCE TOURS

FEATURED TOURS

Save up to $827

Normandy, Brittany and the Loire Valley Guided Tour

Country Roads

Normandy, Brittany & The Loire Valley

12 Locations

From the City of Light to Infamous Cemeteries: See France on an 8-Day Guided Tour

Standard Price

Save up to $1,905

Country Roads of France Guided Tour

Country Roads of France

21 Locations

2 Countries

Revel in the French Riviera and see the City of Light on a 16-Day Guided Tour of France

Save up to $2,144

French Heritage Guided Tour

French Heritage

33 Locations

Fine Wine, The Riviera & The French Alps: The Ultimate 22-Day Guided Tour Across France

World War 1 Battlefields Guided Tour

World War I Battlefields

11 Locations

See Where WWI's Battles Were Waged During a 4-Day Guided Tour in France & Belgium

SHOW ALL EUROPE TOURS

'Business Class' Tours

ALWAYS INCLUDED

Notre Dame, Paris

Euro (EUR, €)

Capital City

Time Difference

London GMT +1

67.12 million

Electricity

European 230V

FROM OUR BLOG

11 RARE AND LITTLE KNOWN FACTS ABOUT A PARISIAN ICON – LE MOULIN ROUGE

The world’s most famous cabaret Le Moulin Rouge is a Parisian icon. A whirlwind of dance and entertainment, this extravagant cabaret has been enthralling guests for more than 130 years. Read on for some fascinating facts about Le Moulin Rouge you might not know, and test your knowledge with our   Insightful Trivia Game .

Le Moulin Rouge  is located at the foot of Montmartre, a large hill in Paris’ 18th Arrondissement. Famed as the birthplace of the French cancan, the cabaret dates back to the end of the 19th Century. Originally named Le Bal du Moulin Rouge, it opened its doors on 6 October 1899. The flamboyant shows provided much needed entertainment and decadence for Parisians after the Franco-Prussian war of 1870.

le-moulin-rouge dancers

#INSIGHTVACATIONS

Discover inspiring, magical moments captured by our guests in destinations around the world.

ALL EUROPE DESTINATIONS

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Czech Republic

Liechtenstein

Netherlands

Switzerland

Alps Central and Eastern Europe

Spain and Portugal

Northern Europe

Eastern Mediterranean

Christmas Markets

Central Europe

Scandinavia and Northern Europe

Eastern Europe

Mediterranean and Southern Europe

OTHER REGIONS

Australia and New Zealand

Latin America

North Africa

UK and Ireland

USA and Canada

ON TOUR RECOMMENDATIONS

Learn More  or Visit Website

ALL THE SIGHTS AND THE INSIGHTS, UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL, IN COMFORT AND IN STYLE

EXPLORE WITH INSIGHT

TOUR STYLES

Discovery Journeys

Regional Journeys

Special Interest Tours

Enquire Now

Request A Brochure

Travel Insurance

The Insightful Blog

Privacy Policy

Booking Conditions

Tour Deposit Level

Travel Updates

My Personal Information

Selected Region

United States

United Kingdom

New Zealand

South Africa

© Insight Vacations 2024. All Rights Reserved.

Cookie Policy

IMAGES

  1. SAGA Spirit of the Rhine

    saga tours to france

  2. Request A Brochure

    saga tours to france

  3. La Grande Saga du Tour de France (2022) Movie

    saga tours to france

  4. The 10 Best Saga Tours

    saga tours to france

  5. "La grande saga du Tour de France" à découvrir le 28 juin sur France 2

    saga tours to france

  6. Où regarder le film La Grande Saga du Tour de France en streaming

    saga tours to france

COMMENTS

  1. France Holidays

    From flaky morning croissants to the after-dinner cheese plate, holidays to France invariably revolve around the delicious food and wine. But don't miss out on the rest of France's charms. Meander through the streets of Bordeaux, pausing at world-class museums and chic galleries. Follow the canals that lace the old quarter of Strasbourg ...

  2. French River Cruises for Over 50s

    French River Cruises with Saga. We have a diverse range of the best French river cruises to suit an array of interests and abilities. The most famous French waterway is the Seine, a slow-flowing river that is 486 miles long. The Seine rises at Dijon near the Swiss Alps before flowing through Paris and finally into the English Channel.

  3. 2024 Holidays & Tours

    Extraordinary destinations. Expertly designed itineraries. Incredible experiences. Plus, a tour manager to manage the finer details. We'll even pick you up from home and take you back again. This is escorted touring with Saga. With over 150 different holidays, and so many inclusions - like international flights, meals and excursions - the hardest part is choosing where to go.

  4. European Holidays & Tours 2024/2025

    Denia, Costa Blanca. Spain. Save up to an extra £500 per couple on departures before 31 January 2025. From £445 per person *. *Ts&Cs apply. offer ends in. 15 d: 20 h: 38 m. HOTEL HOLIDAYS.

  5. Cruise France with Saga

    Embark on a cruise to France and spend your days stopping off at a selection of coastal towns. The nation's Mediterranean coastline is known as the Cote d'Azure and makes up the southeast portion of France. Influenced by ancient Greeks, who colonised the area as early as the 6th century BC, and later by the Romans, the French Riviera has long attracted visitors to its shores.

  6. Saga Cruises France Reviews

    1-9 of 9 Saga Cruises France Reviews. Eventful. Review for aEurope - Western Mediterranean Cruise on Spirit Of Discovery. Crooser65. 6-10 Cruises • Age 60s. This was our first cruise with Saga.

  7. How to travel by ferry to France

    First up are the short crossings. Dover to Calais or Dunkirk are the quickest routes for British motorists, taking around 1.5-2 hours to cross. Next are the crossings to Normandy, the gateway region to the Loire and other popular holiday destinations to the south and west of France. Choose from: Newhaven to Dieppe; Portsmouth to Le Havre, Caen ...

  8. Saga Full Tour Schedule 2024 & 2025, Tour Dates & Concerts

    Saga tour dates 2024. Saga is currently touring across 5 countries and has 17 upcoming concerts. ... Paris, France. Le Sample. Mar 9 Worpswede, Germany. Music Hall. Mar 8 Worpswede, Germany. Music Hall. View all past concerts. Support across tour dates. Nazareth 1 concert.

  9. Holiday destinations & packages for over 50s with Saga

    Holiday destinations & packages for over 50s with Saga. Home. Holidays. Destinations. Make an enquiry. Order a brochure. 0800 9885886. Email sign up.

  10. Historic Ports of France, Spain and Portugal

    Enjoy an all-inclusive cruise to France, Portugal and Spain in 2025. From La Pallice you can discover the 'White City' of La Rochelle before cruising to Portugal where Leixoes offers a gateway to Oporto, known for its port wine and UNESCO-listed Ribeira old town. Continue to Spain to visit Vigo, on the Galician coast, and the maritime city ...

  11. Saga River Cruises

    Why book a Saga River Cruise. All-Inclusive: Enjoy worry-free travel with Saga's all-inclusive offering including meals, drinks, Wi-Fi, gratuities, and return travel. Tailored Experiences for Mature Travellers: specially designed with the over 50s in mind. Door-to-Door Service: Experience the convenience of a professional chauffeur service ...

  12. Saga Holidays & Cruises 2023/24

    Experience travel like no other with award winning Saga Holidays & Cruises for over 50s, both UK and international. Discover our upcoming holidays today.

  13. France Tours, Travel Packages, Vacations, & Guided Trips

    Call us toll free at 800.340.5158. Request A Call Back. Talk To An Expert. Tour France with Collette and travel to scenic valleys and seaside towns, or take a trip to the timeless city of Paris to enjoy gastronomical delights.

  14. Holiday offers

    18 days. From £4,645 per person. With the widest choice of holidays and travel experiences than ever before, you can now personalise your trip so you are in complete control. All this is backed up by the high-standards and service you'd expect from Saga.

  15. France

    An Evening of French Wine & Cheese - 2 Hour tasting experience. Europe, France, Paris. Read more. France Unique Premium French Wine and cheese tasting experience with a Certified Sommelier in Paris Europe , France , Paris Read more The only Paris French Wine.

  16. Beautiful Bordeaux and Portugal

    Relaxing hotel-based holidays in the sun, with a Saga Host on hand. Group Tours . Everything's taken care of on a Saga Group Tour, so you can see and do more. Tailor-Made Travel by Saga . Exciting destinations. ... Bordeaux, France. Arrive 1200 on Aug 24. Depart 2200 on Aug 25.

  17. The Spirit of Andalucia

    The Spirit of Andalucia. Escorted Group Tours. A heady mix of cultures and faiths, dramatic mountain ranges and glorious sunshine make holidays to Andalucía a joy. Join us as we tour Granada's Alhambra (the Red Castle), an intricate fortified palace with centuries of reinvention. Step inside the Mezquita at Cordoba and witness this ...

  18. Tours

    Tours Tours and Experience 4 days private tour to the best of Egypt Africa , Egypt / africa , egypt , private tour Read more 4 days 3 nights private family tour ... France, Paris / 2 hour tasting, evening, experience, france, french, paris, wine and cheese. ... This website www.saga-tour.com often links to products and services, those links may ...

  19. France Guided Tour Packages

    Travel in July and celebrate Bastille Day, which commemorates the end of the French monarchy. With Insight Vacations, you'll gain access to exclusive experiences. At Château de Rochecotte, in the Loire Valley, enjoy a delicious Farm-to-Table dinner and visit a prominent wine estate in Châteauneuf-du-Pape alongside meeting the vintners and ...