bob jackson world tour

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Description

Frame specifications.

Seat tube (ctc) : 49cm

Top tube (ctc) : 53.5cm

Tubeset : Reynolds 531

Place/country of origin : Leeds, UK

Year/era of production : Early 2000s

Bottom bracket threading : British

Steerer/headset threading : British

Seatpost size :

Rear dropout spacing : 130mm

Fork dropout spacing : 100mm

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• Reader's Retro Road Bikes

Bob Jackson World Tour, The Remix...

• Thread starter Blackbike
• Start date Jan 6, 2024

• Jan 6, 2024

I can't wait for the result, or the flogging.  

Guinessisgoodforyou

Retro wizard.

• Jan 7, 2024

Nice looking frame  

• Jan 8, 2024

Curtis Odem, you can see more of his work on Flickr.  

Guinessisgoodforyou said: Curtis Odem, you can see more of his work on Flickr. Click to expand...

chickendrumsticks

Senior retro guru.

• Jan 11, 2024

I admit I had to Google dalruma and delrin - thanks for helping on my learning journey! Lovely frame - following with interest.  

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Bob Jackson vs Surly LHT vs Thorn Club Tour vs?

Post by lstar24 » 26 Oct 2013, 5:38pm

Re: Bob Jackson vs Surly LHT vs Thorn Club Tour vs?

Post by horizon » 26 Oct 2013, 6:52pm

Post by Brucey » 26 Oct 2013, 6:54pm

Post by lstar24 » 26 Oct 2013, 7:12pm

Post by Godlykepower » 26 Oct 2013, 8:46pm

Post by samsbike » 26 Oct 2013, 9:16pm

Post by reohn2 » 27 Oct 2013, 12:34am

Post by Brucey » 27 Oct 2013, 1:01am

Post by mrjemm » 27 Oct 2013, 1:56am

Post by reohn2 » 27 Oct 2013, 8:19am

lstar24 wrote: I don't plan to go offroad and can't see myself using tyres bigger than 32mm so maybe the World Tour could be a good shout?

Post by bikepacker » 27 Oct 2013, 8:37am

Post by PH » 27 Oct 2013, 8:58am

FWIW I consider bigger tyres for a three month extended kitchen sink tour and even if I were riding 32's I'd want a frame that could take bigger tyres should I need to buy tyres whilst away and found that all that were available were something bigger.

Post by reohn2 » 27 Oct 2013, 9:04am

PH wrote: FWIW I consider bigger tyres for a three month extended kitchen sink tour and even if I were riding 32's I'd want a frame that could take bigger tyres should I need to buy tyres whilst away and found that all that were available were something bigger.

Post by lstar24 » 27 Oct 2013, 12:10pm

samsbike wrote: have you considered the specialized AWOL grinder?

Brucey wrote: I'd suggest collecting all the kit you are thinking of taking and weighing it before deciding on the bike you buy

mrjemm wrote: sounds like you've got an N+1 situation

Brucey wrote: I would expect to completely destroy most of (an Ultegra, or indeed pretty much any) transmission

Post by lstar24 » 27 Oct 2013, 12:12pm

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Gunnar Grand Tour

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I've been saving to get a new bike for some time and have decided on a touring bike. Right now the Gunnar seems to be the way to go. I was just wonder if there might be some brand I've missed in the $1000 (frame) price range that might be worth checking out. By the way I'm 6'4" so alot of the stock tourers are too small.  

I think you're on the right track. I too am 6'4" and have looked extensively for frames to accommodate my height and there are not many options at all in the price range Gunnar offers. plus Gunnar is made in Waterford, Wisconsin. Gunnar is going to be my next bike purchase, however I'm looking at the Sport - probably a 64cm frame. Regarding affordable frames, check out Soma. they offer a touring model, steel. $500. largest size is 62 cm Frames | SOMA Fabrications Another option is Surley. they have a touring model, steel. largest size is either 62cm or 64cm - it's a little unclear to me... I can't find prices on website, but I recall them being in the under-$1000 range if memory serves Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes any other custom or semi-custom frame is going to be at least $1500 and likely over $2000 in my research Good Luck  

Check this out: Bruce Gordon Cycles — The "Fully Loaded" BLT (Complete Touring Bike with Front and Rear Racks) For touring bikes one of greats.  

The Soma Saga looks like the best deal for a touring frame, but the Gunnar Grand Tour is probably nicer if the geometry fits you -- plus you can pick the color. Some of the British touring frames -- Bob Jackson World Tour and Mercian King of Mercia -- are in the same price range. I bought an off-the-peg (non custom) BJ World Tour of couple of years ago for about $600 that might be worth considering. You can pick the color and decals, but custom geometry will cost more and take much more time.  

awesome rig there purdy, purdy, purdy I have converted one of my Ibis Haakalugi (older steel) into a light tourrer  

A lot of stock steel frames are rather flexy when you get to the larger sizes 63-64cm. So just be aware of this. This is why custom builders are the way to go if you want a steel frame and are a tall rider. Or go with carbon or aluminum.  

Thanks for the replies guys. Now ya'll have me looking at the Bob Jackson! The mercian would be out of my budget. I'll call them later and try to get a US dolllar price! I love lugs!  

If you don't mind waiting for about 3 or 4 months, you could order a custom Curtlo. They are fairly inexpensive compared to other custom bikes. But they are tig-welded.  

I guess I'll jack my own thread. I've emailed Bob Jackson cycles and am waiting on a response. I was wondering what you guys thought of these options and what would you go with and why. 135od versus 130 and a 1'THREADED headset versus a 11/8" threadless.  

Word of warning: Bob Jackson is terrible about responding to emails. I finally broke down and got international service on my cell phone so I could call them, but their accents were a little hard to understand! Rear spacing at 135 would allow you to use mountain bike hubs and larger tires in theory, but you would want to doublecheck that with BJ because they say the World Tour has clearance for 32 mm tires on mine with 130 spacing. If the 135 spacing doesn't allow larger tires, not sure what the advantage would be. A 1" threaded steerer tube would provide you more flexibility in raising the handlebars higher with a Nitto Technomic or similar stem with long quill. You would find many more options for stems with the 1-1/8 steerer tube but may need to use a lot of spacers if you want your handlebars higher. The one complaint I have about my World Tour frame is the head tube was really short, about 138 mm on a 57 cm frame. They had told me it would be 150 or 160 mm. My theory is they don't build all of their off-the-peg frames exactly the same. I was never able to get a geometry chart from them, despite asking several times. In my case, I run my handlebars relatively high -- about level with the saddle -- so the 1" threaded steerer was my best option. I added a Serotta Heads-Up head tube extender, which increased the height by 2 cm, but could have achieved the same thing with 2 cm of spacers.  

I too have been wanting to get a touring bike and think I lucked out this weekend and got this: Bikes | Road | Touring | SHERPA 30 The only way the bike differs is it has 50-39-30 chainrings, which I prefer and it came with Tektro CR720 brakes. Will swap saddle for a Brooks B-17 and Shimano SPD pedals. Got it for $1320 with tax. I am 5'10" and the 53" fits perfect.  

BIG (literally) fan of Gunnar so far, mine's hanging in the shop (Sport with custom geometry, I'm 6'8") waiting for my 210mm cranks...  

I emailed Bob Jackson again and am trying to get a final price and geometry #'s for the off the peg frame. I also asked for the custom price. I am still considering Gunnar because I'm a little apprehensive about ordering from England. Hopefully I'll get the news I want from them and then I'll decide. One of the last questions I have is what tubeset to get if I go with the Bob Jackson. The choices are 631/525, 725 and 853. These all come in an oversized version. What do you guys think?  

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Re: New/Old Bob Jackson World Tour

Dammit. How do I insert a pic? https://ibb.co/7S52Cw0

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Quote from: The Hood on 04 December, 2019, 09:47:38 pm Dammit. How do I insert a pic? https://ibb.co/7S52Cw0

When I ordered my Bob Jackson World Tour in 2007 it was completely specced to my desires. During the ordering process I was even asked to send a photo of my previous tourer so the way I load my tourer could be integrated in the design process. Since I tend to front load a lot the front end was beefed up. Anything could be specced as long as it's reasonable so it's hard to find 2 BJ World Tours from the same year to be of the same size and have all the same specs. The great benefits of custom made frames.

Quote from: Ivo on 01 February, 2020, 09:35:40 am When I ordered my Bob Jackson World Tour in 2007 it was completely specced to my desires. During the ordering process I was even asked to send a photo of my previous tourer so the way I load my tourer could be integrated in the design process. Since I tend to front load a lot the front end was beefed up. Anything could be specced as long as it's reasonable so it's hard to find 2 BJ World Tours from the same year to be of the same size and have all the same specs. The great benefits of custom made frames.

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Definitely too small, I'm identical I  measurements to you and it wasn't until bike fit+custom frame that I started to be able to interpret geometry charts to know what would fit (stack and reach helped a great deal).  I'd guess at least 3/4 of road style bikes in the market wouldn't fit us without a huge stack of headset spacers, and that shouldn't be done with anything other than a steel fork steerer.  The 1/4 that would work are in the 'relaxed/sportive' type geometry that's a fairly recent thing so it rules out the vast majority of otp steel frames of old on the second hand market,  you'd have to get very lucky with a used custom frame made for someone equally freaky. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Quote from: GrahamG on 13 February, 2020, 08:15:34 am Definitely too small, I'm identical I  measurements to you and it wasn't until bike fit+custom frame that I started to be able to interpret geometry charts to know what would fit (stack and reach helped a great deal).  I'd guess at least 3/4 of road style bikes in the market wouldn't fit us without a huge stack of headset spacers, and that shouldn't be done with anything other than a steel fork steerer.  The 1/4 that would work are in the 'relaxed/sportive' type geometry that's a fairly recent thing so it rules out the vast majority of otp steel frames of old on the second hand market,  you'd have to get very lucky with a used custom frame made for someone equally freaky. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Quote from: The Hood on 13 September, 2020, 11:16:04 pm Quote from: GrahamG on 13 February, 2020, 08:15:34 am Definitely too small, I'm identical I  measurements to you and it wasn't until bike fit+custom frame that I started to be able to interpret geometry charts to know what would fit (stack and reach helped a great deal).  I'd guess at least 3/4 of road style bikes in the market wouldn't fit us without a huge stack of headset spacers, and that shouldn't be done with anything other than a steel fork steerer.  The 1/4 that would work are in the 'relaxed/sportive' type geometry that's a fairly recent thing so it rules out the vast majority of otp steel frames of old on the second hand market,  you'd have to get very lucky with a used custom frame made for someone equally freaky. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I've only ever seen one frame with a forward sloping top tube and that was a more mature rider at Ely's annual Hardriders TT, a 25 done in early Feb

I am 182cm with c.90cm legs.  My Bob Jackson was supposed to be custom but my Roberts that really was custom has a shorter top tube.  I replaced the stem on the BJ, I never had to change a thing on the Roberts.  "you'd have to get very lucky with a used custom frame made for someone equally freaky." My 1987 British Eagle would never have been custom yet it fits me perfectly, having a 62cm frame with a relatively short top tube.  It was made by a small workshop (Eagle Cycle Works, Mochdre, Newtown, Powys SY16 4LD) employing Welsh ex-coal miners and Barry Hoban was their design consultant. In the mid-80s a quite a number of UK frame makers operated and could offer a variety of sizings.  I bought my first good bike(531 frame) in 1985.  I went to the shop in The Strand, they measured me up and told me to come back in a couple of hours!  When I returned, there was my bike, ready to go and I rode it to Chelmsford station where my car was parked.  I guess they had a stack of ready-made frames, all sizes, and just needed to stick the components on.   When it got nicked I bought the British Eagle Touristique off ebay for £30 (and spent loads more doing it up).

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AEG  and  MRG Live present

This Is Wild World Tour

Thu , Oct 24 2024

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Doors: 7:00pm Show: 8:00pm Artist Presale: June 5 @ 10am ET Local Presale: June 6 @ 10am ET Public On Sale : June 7 @ 10am ET

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* Venue seating configurations can vary market-by-market VIP PACKAGE DISCLAIMERS All package and upgrade purchasers will be contacted via e-mail a few days prior to the event date with additional program details. Information will be sent to the e-mail address provided at the time of purchase. If you do not receive an e-mail, please contact  [email protected] All sales are final. There are no refunds or exchanges under any circumstances. All packages and associated contents are non-transferable. The artist, show and venue reserve the right to cancel any order for any reason. VIP merchandise will be distributed at the show; some exceptions may apply. VIP merchandise is not required for venue entry. Package purchases are restricted to U.S. & Canadian addresses only. VIP programs times may vary market-by-market and are subject to modification at any time for any reason. Information provided at the time of purchase (name, address, e-mail, etc.) is the same information that will be utilized for individual contact requirements as applicable. The artist, tour, promoter, ticketing company, venue or any other affiliated parties are not responsible for outdated or inaccurate information provided by the consumer at the time of purchase. Commemorative VIP laminates are for commemorative purposes only. The VIP laminate does not gain or authorize access into the venue, VIP or any backstage areas. Patrons requiring accessible seating should purchase the accessible seating marked on the seat map. Please reach out to  [email protected] for any special arrangements needed at the venue or if you require companion seating. Have an MRG Credit/Gift Card? Redeem for tickets  HERE

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A Different World 's Darryl M. Bell Reveals What Made the Show Special as Fans Embrace Cast's HBCU Reunion Tour (Exclusive)

The actor and his costars from the beloved NBC sitcom are just getting started

Bob Gersny/NBCU /getty

• The cast of A Different World has enjoyed visiting HBCU campuses and looking back at the iconic show's place in television and Black history
• Darryl M. Bell, who portrayed Ron Johnson on the show, tells PEOPLE what it's been like engaging with college students, alumni and staff and the demand for more stops on the tour
• The actor also looks back at some of the magic that made the show a success throughout its six-year run

After reuniting with his castmates earlier this year to  embark on a 10-city tour of historically Black colleges and universities (HBCUs) , A Different World 's Darryl M. Bell — who played the lovable Ronald 'Ron' Johnson on the NBC sitcom — tells PEOPLE that the group's work together is just beginning.

"We have said for a long time that it's been one of our greatest gifts to be ambassadors for HBCUs for almost 40 years," Bell tells PEOPLE.

"Not a day goes by when all of us who are connected to the cast of A Different World don't have someone say to us that they went to college because of the show, that they're a lawyer or an engineer or a doctor because of the show. It's the most satisfying thing," he shares.

Thus far, the group — alumni of the beloved fictional HBCU Hillman College — have enjoyed connecting with current HBCU students, as well as alumni and faculty at these esteemed institutions.

"All the response the tour is getting is emblematic of the impact that A Different World has had over the years. It's among a few shows that has never been off the air since it debuted in 1987. It's always been around, either on the air in primetime or in syndication or streaming," he says.

Never miss a story — sign up for PEOPLE's free daily newsletter to stay up-to-date on the best of what PEOPLE has to offer, from juicy celebrity news to compelling human interest stories.

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"New generations continue to find A Different World . We often hear, and it puts the clock on all of us, but that, 'I watched the show and now my children watch the show. My grandchildren watch the show,' " Bell continues.

"There's that renewal of every generation that looks to find stories that inspire them. And I encourage them to go to college and get an education and encourage them to think about their career and talk about the issues that are important to them."

In the actors' time on different campuses throughout this year, Bell says he notices that " college students in 2024 have a lot of similarities to college students in 1987."

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"We're talking about student protests now. We talked about that in A Different World . If we're talking about health concerns, we talk about that in A Different World . We're talking about women's rights and the protection of women against domestic violence and danger," he points out.

"These are all things that we talked about and it illustrates that there are so many issues that remain evergreen for young people and people of all ages. That's why the show continues to resonate and why the tours received such a warm and overwhelming response."

There's a lot of pride in tackling major subjects of the day head-on, as well as keeping the show's signature levity throughout everything they explored.

"I think what I'm most proud of is, irrespective of how difficult some subject matter may have been, A Different World was always funny. We approached everything through the lens of humor. People often say, 'A serious word has been said in a joke,' and I think that's what allows everyone to take down their guard, at least for a moment," Bell says.

The nuance of that approach wasn't always easy, but Bell notes, "One of our strengths was being open-minded to inclusivity around everyone, irrespective of race, religion, sexual orientation, all of that."

He cites the episode " If I Should Die Before I Wake ," where in a public speaking class a professor ( Whoopi Goldberg ) assigns the class to deliver a speech at their own funerals. In a heart-wrenching speech, one student, Josie ( Tisha Campbell ), reveals she's living with AIDS , to the shock of her unsuspecting classmates.

"For us to be able to talk about that ... the network was concerned about us talking about it," he levels.

" Tom Werner , Marcy Carson, Debbie Allen , and Susan Fields were all in the fight with the network. Advertisers were talking about pulling out. This was at a time when you couldn't show a condom on television," Bell recalls.

The show was the first network television show to address AIDS, with the episode coming just after Magic Johnson revealed he was living with HIV in 1991.

"The insistence to even approach the AIDS conversation mandated that the infected person had to be a woman who was presumed to have contracted AIDS by having heterosexual sex," he shares. "If you say these things in a conversation today when you're talking to people about creating content, they would think you were born in the Stone Age."'

Bell says the approach the show took to these difficult topics "allowed us to think about something without being adversarial."

"Because if we can all laugh together, then what else can we do together? So I'm really proud of the way in which, for the most part, A Different World was still a sitcom," he explains. "It remains one of the funniest shows in the history of television, with credit to those comedy writers whose great work gave us their ability that allowed us to have subsequent conversations around thought-provoking issues."

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While the show touched on so much, Bell also says, "There were things we didn't get to talk about that we couldn't have anticipated but surely would have addressed if we were given the chance."

"We had Jesse Jackson on as a guest star after he had a presidential run. It was really fun episode where Ron made a poster with him, Dwayne Wayne and Jesse as if they were all running mates. It was really funny, but everyone thought, 'How ridiculous is that scene?' Jesse ran, but in 1990, he never had a chance to win it," he recalls.

"No one would have anticipated Barack Obama getting elected. And yet, it happened. It's incredulous that during President Obama's term in office, there were a lot of kids who were walking around the United States who didn't know a world without a Black president, right? It was like, 'What do you mean? What's the big deal? The president is Black — aren't they all?' "

The cast is looking forward to continuing important conversations and heartfelt looks back at the show as they work out their tour schedule for the fall.

"As part of the tour, we are also going to visit PWIs [Predominately White Institutions]. We're looking at including events with a few schools, and there are a couple of reasons behind that. When we talk about an HBCU college tour, many PWI presidents will tell you that while they aren't an HBCU, because they are much larger institutions, they have a larger population of African-American and minority students than many HBCUs do," Bell says.

"You also have to keep in mind that while A Different World served the African-American community and that audience, you don't get the 20 million plus viewers with just the African-American audience. Our show is wildly popular with other folks, as well. So there are other schools and other audiences that also want to have the benefit of connecting with us while we're doing this."

While speaking of other audiences, Bell teases a possibility for bigger public events in the future, too.

"We have the general public that's been messaging us asking, 'When are you going to do something we can come to?' So we're in the process of developing a strategy to host some public events where we can take it off campus to a wider audience."

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ANCASTER, Ontario – It wasn’t quite a last resort, but the call had a tone of desperation.

After parting ways with a former caddie at the Charles Schwab Challenge, Robert MacIntyre needed a fill-in for the RBC Canadian Open. A handful of queries went unfulfilled, so MacIntyre dialed up his emergency option – his dad Dougie.

The Scotsman didn’t want to inconvenience his father, who still resides in MacIntyre’s hometown of Oban, Scotland, and works full-time as head greenkeeper at Glencruitten Golf Club – but Dougie MacIntyre knows his son’s game inside and out. He coached him until he was 14 or 15 years old and was an accomplished shinty player, only without the funds to pursue his full potential at the sport’s highest level (MacIntyre describes shinty as “a cross between field hockey and organized violence”).

Dougie MacIntyre hadn’t caddied since DP World Tour Q-School in fall 2017, but this week marked a critical juncture in his son’s first season as a PGA TOUR member – the highly touted MacIntyre, 27, arrived in Canada at No. 75 on the FedExCup standings, right on the bubble to qualify for the FedExCup Playoffs (top 70 after the Wyndham Championship in August). The call was made, and the answer was a quick yes – after confirming he could take the week off from work.

Robert MacIntyre’s emotional interview after winning the RBC Canadian

That call led to more than they could have imagined. MacIntyre earned his first PGA TOUR title at the RBC Canadian Open, carding a final-round 68 at Hamilton Golf & Country Club for a 16-under 264 total, one stroke clear of Ben Griffin. Not only does he get the proverbial monkey off his back, after a gripping one-stroke defeat to Rory McIlroy at last summer’s Genesis Scottish Open, but MacIntyre cements exempt PGA TOUR status through 2026 and qualifies for this season’s remaining Signature Events. (He’s also safely inside the top 60 in the Official World Golf Ranking, meaning he can cancel his Monday tee time at 36-hole U.S. Open Final Qualifying, in which his dad was also planning to carry the bag.)

Dougie MacIntyre is the first father to caddie his son to a PGA TOUR title since Jack Slocum (for son Heath) at the 2005 Southern Farm Bureau Classic. This isn’t a permanent arrangement by any means; MacIntyre said he has a full-time caddie scheduled to start at next week’s Memorial Tournament presented by Workday – which is a new addition to his schedule after his victory in Canada. (He might have liked to return home to Oban for some celebrations, he quipped afterward, but he figures a trip to Muirfield Village isn’t a bad idea.)

Robert MacIntyre pars the last to secure first win at RBC Canadian

MacIntyre is a chip off the old block, known on TOUR for his kindness and humility – which he certainly inherited from his father. MacIntyre’s parents (Dougie and mom Carol) are longtime foster parents; MacIntyre grew up with several foster brothers and sisters. The family wasn’t particularly well off; MacIntyre didn’t have the pick of the litter when it came to junior golf tournaments, but he was always loved, supported and encouraged. He grew to understand the rough upbringings of his foster brothers and sisters – some had been abused or neglected – and he learned not to take anything for granted. After his son’s victory Sunday in southern Ontario, Dougie MacIntyre gave away golf balls and towels to young fans, conversing and sharing in their revelry. He was in full dad effect.

“I think it makes you realize that hitting a white ball around a golf course isn't the most important thing,” MacIntyre described the impact of his parents’ fostering. “I mean, I've been in tears over it, kids going away from you. They become family. They have been in a tough spot. I wasn't given everything as a kid. I was given a great opportunity. My dad was obviously a really good sportsman, football, golf, shinty, didn't have the finances to really chase it, and I think it was something that my mom and dad always wanted to do. I've got two older sisters who are right into their horses, horse riding and stuff, but they even sacrificed quite a lot of that just to give me a chance.

“I couldn't play in golf tournaments as a junior because we couldn't afford it. I think that made me, that makes me fight and never give up, I think not being given anything. I mean, they gave me quite a bit. They gave me the opportunity, but never – never was I spoon-fed. I was always fighting for every bit of it.”

Dougie MacIntyre’s soft side complements a competitive edge that was also on display at Hamilton Golf & Country Club, coming to the forefront at critical moments on the weekend. The younger MacIntyre was on the verge of falling into a mental rut as he strode down the 10th fairway Saturday, having turned in 1-over 36 and sensing his grip on the tournament slipping away (he entered the third round in a share of the lead; he was four back at the turn Saturday). His dad sensed the spiral and wanted to nip it in the bud – MacIntyre has emphasized an improved mental game in recent weeks, taking negative thoughts and flipping them into a positive tone.

“He was having a wee go at me when I was walking from the 10th tee down to the fairway,” MacIntyre said. “Look, he was a sporting guy, he knows how to win, knows how to lose, he's been through it all. He could see my head going a little bit and he's like, ‘What have you been working on for the last eight weeks, 10 weeks?’ … I kind of flipped into that mode and tried to find the positive in everything.”

Robert MacIntyre's news conference after winning RBC Canadian

MacIntyre listened on the very next hole. After his tee shot caught a divot in the 11th fairway, he could have been “mumping and moaning about it,” but he told himself the lie lent itself to a cutty 6-iron. He played a 183-yard approach to the center of the green and two-putted from 20 feet. Then he played his next seven holes in 4-under, signing for a 4-under 66 and suddenly assuming a four-stroke lead into Sunday, where he withstood Griffin’s late charge (birdies on Nos. 15, 16 and 17) for a one-stroke win that he and his dad will remember forever.

The energy of their shared hug on the 18th green Sunday, amidst the cacophony of adoring Canadian fans, was surely felt back home in Oban. It’s where MacIntyre learned the game and what it meant to be a man. Both things coalesced this weekend, under the watchful eye of the man who has been there all the way.

“Unbelievable,” said Dougie MacIntyre on the 18th green in the aftermath, basking in the moment with tears in his eyes. He could barely speak, but the emotion said it all.

“Unbelievable.”

Kevin Prise is an associate editor for the PGA TOUR. He is on a lifelong quest to break 80 on a course that exceeds 6,000 yards and to see the Buffalo Bills win a Super Bowl. Follow Kevin Prise on Twitter .

Taylor Swift v The Beatles: As the Eras tour hits the UK, how does the star compare against the biggest band of all time?

Album sales, awards, Guinness World Records... How do you crown the biggest music artist of all time - and is it definitely Taylor Swift? With the Eras tour hitting the UK, it certainly feels that way at the moment - but Beatles fans might just have something to say about it.

By Gemma Peplow, culture and entertainment reporter, and Saywah Mahmood, data journalist

Wednesday 5 June 2024 17:08, UK

Are you ready for it? Because this week, Taylor Swift rolls into town for the first UK dates of her record-shattering Eras tour, to dominate front pages, social media, and a large proportion of the national conversation for the foreseeable.

Something has shifted in the Swiftverse in the past few years. She now transcends even the highest echelons of pop fame, massively boosting everything from music sales to, well, the entire global economy.

The Eras tour is a cultural and economic juggernaut; the first to cross the $1bn mark, according to Pollstar's 2023 year-end charts, and already beating the record set by Sir Elton John and his Farewell Yellow Brick Road goodbye, which ran from 2018 to 2023 and grossed $939 million . Several experts predict it could generate more than $4bn by the time it finishes.

Swift is the first arts and entertainment star to be named Time's Person of the Year . The first ever music billionaire to reach the milestone solely through her songwriting and recording. A slick pop star who understands the power of This. Sick. Beat, but also a songwriter and lyricist whose words are studied as poetry around the world. She has long been the biggest modern music star on the planet - but could she now be the biggest of all time?

To answer that question, you have to look to The Beatles . The band that changed the nature of the industry, long regarded as the most influential music act in music history.

In October last year, Swift re-released her fifth album, 1989, the record that really marked her crossover from incredibly successful country star to pop phenomenon. Featuring re-records of tracks that remain among her biggest hits to date, including Shake It Off, Blank Space and Bad Blood, 1989 (Taylor's Version) inevitably followed all her others in skipping to the top of charts around the world.

Three weeks later came reissues of The Beatles' classic Red and Blue album collections following the surprise release of Now And Then, the first original single in years , finally finished by Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Ringo Starr after more than four decades.

Now And Then topped the singles chart, naturally. But when it came to taking on Swift on the album chart, the star held her spot - denying the biggest and most influential band in history an extension to their record-breaking UK number one tally of 16.

The unstoppable force of Taylor Swift

Of course, The Beatles albums were reissues, but it's worth noting Swift's re-recordings are also not entirely new - she is re-recording much of her early work to reclaim her rights, with the addition of "from the vault" tracks - plus, fans had already been buying 1989 (Taylor's Version) for three weeks by this point.

To Swifties, she is undoubtedly the biggest music artist of all time. To fans of the Fab Four, there will never be another act that comes close. Can their achievements be compared?

It's tricky. Swift and The Beatles reached the height of their fame (and Swift might not even be there yet) in different - ahem - eras. There are multiple caveats - inflation, population growth, streaming and the affordability of music, live music becoming more lucrative, social media, do we include the individual Beatles' solo output (we haven't), and so on - that mean there is no exact science here.

But, we've given it a go...

Topping the charts

In the battle of the number ones, The Beatles get the points.

When it comes to singles, surprisingly, Swift hasn't had as many as you might think topping the charts in the UK. Her first was Look What You Made Me Do in 2017 - Shake It Off, her biggest-selling hit, reached number one in the US, but number two here. Anti-Hero, from Midnights, became her second UK number one in 2022, with Is It Over Now? (Taylor's Version) and Fortnight, her recent collaboration with Post Malone, adding to the pile in the last year.

The Beatles, on the other hand, started scoring number ones early on. The first, From Me To You, was their third single, released in 1963, and was followed by hits including She Loves You, I Want To Hold Your Hand, Can't Buy Me Love, Help!, All You Need Is Love, Hey Jude... the list goes on.

Album chart-toppers are more evenly matched. The Beatles actually have more in the US than they have in the UK, as different versions and more records were released across the pond. All apart from one of their 12 studio albums topped the charts in the UK - Yellow Submarine peaked at number three in 1969 - and they have also reached the top spot with live and compilation albums.

Apart from her debut, Taylor Swift, released in 2006, all of Swift's albums have reached number one in the US. In the UK it was her fourth album, Red, that became her first chart-topper, and all others since have followed.

Record sales

This one is a tricky one as not all sales are certified. According to Guinness (and we'll come to world records later), The Beatles have amassed the greatest sales for any group, with all-time sales estimated by record label EMI at more than one billion discs and tapes to date. Note this is worldwide, and estimated.

So we've looked at certified sales of the music stars' studio albums - no compilations or live album sales - in the UK and US. In the UK, The Beatles take the win, with more platinum and gold sales than Swift. But in the US, she's way ahead.

Interestingly, they both add up to just under 295 million certified sales in the UK and US.

In the UK, the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) rates platinum sales for albums as those that reach 300,000 units, with gold sales at 100,000. In the US, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) rates diamond sales for albums at 10m units, while platinum is 1m and gold is 500,000.

The trophy cabinet

Swift wins this one - but there are a lot more awards up for grabs nowadays. She has 26 Teen Choice Awards, for example, and 40 American Music Awards, and neither were around in the 1960s.

The Grammy Awards were, though, and Swift is definitely the winner here - with 14 wins out of 52 nominations. Earlier this year, she became the first and only artist to win the Grammy for album of the year four times , for Midnights (2024), Folklore (2021), 1989 (2016), and Fearless (2010). She also has the most nominations for song of the year, with seven, but interestingly has never won in this category.

The Beatles have seven Grammy wins from 23 nominations, including best new artist and best performance by a vocal group, for A Hard Day's Night, in 1964.

Despite her Grammys success, Swift is by no means the ceremony's biggest winner - that accolade goes to Beyonce, who has 32 gongs from 88 nominations.

Deep space and earthquakes: Who's the biggest record breaker?

In 2021, Swift's re-recorded version of Fearless became the star's third to top the UK charts in less than 12 months, breaking a long-held record by The Beatles.

In February, she surpassed their record for holding the most weeks in the Billboard 200's Top 10 in the last 60 years. In April, she topped the UK album chart with The Tortured Poets Department, outselling the rest of the top 10 combined and beating The Beatles for the record of fastest artist to rack up 12 UK number ones.

And remember her billionaire status? Well, Sir Paul is also in the club - but having reached that point only earlier this year, a month after Swift, it's taken him a lot longer to gain membership.

According to Guinness, Swift currently holds at least 77 records, while The Beatles hold at least 29. However, there is a chance there could be even more than this as records are constantly being set and broken - and it should be noted that with streaming, inflation and more awards shows now, it is easier to keep breaking records now than it was back in The Beatles' day.

Some of Swift's records include several for Spotify, such as being the most streamed act in 24 hours following the release of Midnights in 2022; most US singles chart entries (263); most million-selling weeks on the US albums chart; plus the greatest seismic activity caused by a music concert (equivalent to a 2.3 magnitude earthquake).

The Beatles' records include the best-selling group ever worldwide; most consecutive weeks at number one on the UK albums chart - 30 weeks in 1963 for debut Please Please Me; most viewed Wikipedia page for a music group; and first song to be beamed into deep space with Across The Universe in 2008, courtesy of NASA.

Can't Buy Me Love - but musicians can boost an economy

Now this one is pretty difficult to compare. So we won't. But there are some impressive stats.

According to Barclays' Swiftonomics report, released in May, the UK leg of the Eras tour is set to boost the UK economy by almost $1bn.

Eras Tour tickets sparked a 15.8% year-on-year increase in UK spending on entertainment when they were released last July, the bank says, and now the dates are here, nearly 1.2m fans attending 15 gigs taking place in Edinburgh, Cardiff, Liverpool and London are predicted to spend an average of £848 in total on tickets, travel, accommodation, outfits and other expenses.

The Beatles' economic impact is harder to quantify. But there is information available on the band's continuing boost to Liverpool alone - £81.9m to their home city's economy each year, according to a report commissioned by Liverpool City Council in 2016.

This was set to grow by up to 15% each year, the report found at the time, with the band's legacy also supporting more than 2,300 jobs.

Help! Is Swift bigger than The Beatles?

We asked some experts for their thoughts.

Dave Fawbert, founder of the Swiftogeddon club nights playing Swift, and nothing but Swift, says she is unmatched at the moment.

"She really does have it all," he says. "She's incredibly gifted melodically... you listen to Shake It Off, there's literally about eight incredible hooks in that song.

"Most of the tracks, you hear the choruses once or twice, they're so well written, you'll be able to sing along by the third chorus. The other thing about her songs is they're arranged so brilliantly, there's never any wasted space in them."

And then there's her lyrics, he says, her ability to pick out universal emotions, specific details, and express them in song. "And she's done it across virtually every genre. She's a genius and she's got the genius to work with good people as well."

He says he would compare her dominance now to that of Michael Jackson in the 1980s and 1990s. But what about The Beatles? "I mean, they're the best, I'm not sure they'll ever be surpassed," he admits. "But Taylor's close."

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UK tribute band The Bootleg Beatles say it's too early to make a call.

"The music of The Beatles has already stood the test of time. The reaction we get as we continually tour around the UK - we're back this month - and indeed the world, is testament to that," they say. "So, while Taylor Swift is undoubtedly a wonderful talent, it's probably around 50 years too early to judge her against the Fab Four."

Hits Radio presenter Tom Green says they are two artists that "owned the zeitgeist" of their times. So is the comparison fair? "Yes and no."

He elaborates: "I think it was probably a bit easier to be the whole zeitgeist in the '60s, because there was only so many media outlets. Everyone was watching the same thing."

Now, it's a lot harder to create something that everyone is looking at, but Swift is constantly keeping our attention, he says. "I think the comparisons are really hard to do and music is so subjective. But I think the interesting thing about The Beatles is they brought in a genre of music, they ushered in the genre of rock and roll into pop music."

Read more: The hidden meanings in Swift's new album How a country girl took over the world

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Dr Clio Doyle, a lecturer in early modern literature at Queen Mary University of London, teaches a module on Swift's lyrics as literature. In her field, she says she would draw comparisons with artists such as Bob Dylan rather than The Beatles.

"It's this kind of body of work that is really self-examining and self-revising and revisiting in a way that feels very dynamic and alive and intellectually interesting," she says of Swift's music. "I also think that one thing Swift has always done throughout her career is, she's often talking about literature - from a very early song like Love Story, which is rewriting Romeo And Juliet, to a later song like The Lakes, which is thinking about romantic poetry."

Dylan became the first musician to win the Nobel Prize for literature in 2016, she points out, a decision deemed controversial due to arguments over whether lyrics count as literature. "I think we have to say they do because they're written texts," says Dr Doyle. "I think those are very interesting conversations. And I think we see some of those conversations also now around Taylor Swift."

And Dr Amy Skjerseth, a lecturer in audiovisual media and a member of the Institute of Popular Music at the University of Liverpool, says that like Swift, The Beatles also had different eras, but Swift's experience in the industry will have been different to theirs, as four male stars.

"For women-identifying pop stars, eras often are about survival in a music industry that does not make space for them, especially for artists of colour and queer artists," she says. "There are also significant differences in class between Swift and The Beatles - Swift's family had the means to support her career.

"And while Beatlemania was heavily stereotyped back in the day, Swift's fans have an increased ability to push for social justice and social change, connect with each other, and create a larger sense of community.

"Beyond Taylor Swift, the Eras concept might help attract wider attention to artists who have worked tirelessly under the radar to transform their musical messages across changing times."

So are we any closer to saying whether Swift is the biggest artist of all time?

Some of the stats suggest she might be. Beatles fans will disagree.

Will there be an answer? Maybe in 50 years, as The Bootleg Beatles say. For now, we'll let it be.

Related Topics

• Paul McCartney
• Taylor Swift
• The Beatles