reasons for excessive brake pedal travel

HOW TO FIX EXCESSIVE BRAKE PEDAL TRAVEL

What Is Excessive Brake Pedal Travel?

Excessive brake pedal travel happens when you feel your pedal sinking rapidly while braking, or sitting lower than usual when activating your vehicle’s brakes. This can happen due to wobbly discs knocking pistons back or air in the braking system.

Performing DIY brake repair to fix excessive brake pedal travel can be a tedious task. Follow the steps below to diagnose and repair your sinking brakes.

How to Fix Excessive Brake Pedal Travel

1. Diagnose the Problem . To diagnose issues with the master cylinder, the first thing you need to do is remove the lines, install brass or plastic plugs into the outlets, and apply the brakes. What happens when you apply the brakes will tell you what issue your vehicle is having. You can continue this process of elimination by isolating each wheel.

2. Use Your Parking Brake. If you don’t typically engage your parking brake, the parking brake can be key in figuring out if your car is suffering from excessive brake pedal travel. If the parking brake doesn’t properly engage, that generally means a low pedal.

3. Bleed the Brakes. Bleeding your brakes is an important step in brake pedal travel repair and other brake issues. Use a jelly jar half full of brake fluid and a short hose to depress your brake pedal.

While depressing the pedal, rotate the star wheel to lose up the clearance. Then, go back one click when the wheel scrapes. It’s best to have a partner on hand when bleeding your brakes.

4. Bleed the Master Cylinders . After bleeding the brakes, bleeding the master cylinders is the next step. In traditional systems, you begin with the longest line in the circuit first, and go from the right rear, left rear, right front, and left the front. In diagonally split systems, the order is right rear, left front, left rear, and right front. Flush out the bleeder valves, and finally, remove the air from your master cylinder.

If you’re not sure which type of system your vehicle is or are unaware of the proper tools needed to fix excessive brake pedal travel, it’s best to bring your vehicle into Brake Works.

With two convenient locations with great weekend hours, getting proper brake maintenance is simpler than you think. Contact our team of certified specialists to schedule an appointment.

Erika Suarez

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Dealing With A Low Brake Pedal

"Honey, can I borrow your car?" No problem. She tosses you the keys. But at the first stop sign you draw a startled breath--the pedal's going, going, almost gone! There's even a little dent in the carpet under the pedal. Didn't she notice? Well, no she didn't. Typically, low-pedal trouble develops so gradually that people don't realize it.

Hydraulic brakes have been around since Duesenberg introduced them in 1921, but apparently a long history is no defense against troubles. And professionals and do-it-yourselfers alike are often guilty of misdiagnosis--they blame the master cylinder, though it is seldom the culprit.

There are only two plausible reasons for a low pedal: air in the system; and excessive movement between linings and rotors or drums (due to lack of adjustment, an out-of-round drum, or a wobbly disc that's knocking the pistons back so that there's extra space to take up before braking action begins).

Isolation You can find out all you need to know about the master cylinder by removing the lines, screwing brass or plastic plugs into the outlets, and then applying the brakes. If the pedal's high and hard now, the master has been properly bled and its seals are okay. The pedal would sink gradually if it were bypassing--that is, if fluid were finding its way around the sliding seals. You've also confirmed that the booster is okay. Reattach the lines.

Continue the process of elimination by clamping hoses to isolate each wheel. Use a suitable rounded-jaw tool, either the locking-pliers type or one of those inexpensive J-hooks with a knurled screw. Releasing one at a time should locate the problem.

Use That Parking Brake If you never engage the parking brake, self-adjustment of the pads and rotor simply won't occur, and that means a low pedal. Another impediment to adjustment is corrosion and contamination of the piston, cylinder and self-adjustment hardware. So, change your habits and start using the parking brake every time you leave the car, and overhaul or replace those calipers if they're not just right. If the parking brake isn't used regularly, one of these days a parking lot attendant will apply it and your car will be immobilized until those corroded cables and other seized parts are replaced.

Beat The Drums Rear drum brakes can cause a low pedal, too. Seized star-wheel screws and otherwise inoperative self-adjusters are practically an epidemic, and you're risking trouble if you don't replace the hardware when replacing shoes. At the very least, clean the star-wheel threads and treat them to a coating of antiseize compound.

There's another factor that's usually not recognized: drivers who never stop aggressively enough in Reverse to ratchet the self-adjusters. It's a good idea to stomp on the brake pedal every week or so while backing up--preferably in a deserted lot or other safe place.

What about the drums themselves? They're frequently out of round, leaving excess shoe-to-drum clearance and, of course, causing pulsation.

The old-fashioned, low-tech way to bleed brakes is to use a jelly jar half full of brake fluid, a short piece of hose, and a patient helper to depress the brake pedal.

Depress the tab while you rotate the star wheel to close up the clearance. When the wheel scrapes lightly, go back one click.

Brake drums will be marked clearly as to how far they can be machined safely to remove out of round.

Bubble Trouble For all practical purposes, brake fluid is incompressible. Air, on the other hand, can be squeezed down into a smaller-than-natural volume, and its presence will disrupt the operation of any hydraulic system. It promotes internal corrosion, too. Ergo, it must be expelled.

The most common cause of pedal problems is failure to bench bleed a new master cylinder. Screw the supplied fittings into the outlets and place the tips of the tubes in the fluid in the reservoir. Clamp one of the master's mounting ears in a vise--don't grip around the cylinder--so the unit is as level as possible. Use a rod or drift to stroke the piston slowly. Wait at least 15 seconds between strokes to allow the low-pressure chamber to release all its bubbles and fill completely. Keep stroking until there's no more evidence of air at the ports and tube tips.

If the car has a replacement cylinder that somebody didn't bench bleed, you might be able to do it with the master in place, provided you can jack the rear of the vehicle high enough to get the cylinder to be level. Again, pump slowly and allow time between strokes.

An important precaution to observe during any bleeding procedure that involves pumping the pedal is to limit pedal travel. You don't want the delicate lips of the master cylinder's piston seals to ride so deep in the bore that they encounter rough corrosion or deposits, which can scratch them. Just throw a chunk of 2 x 4 on the floor under the pedal.

When it comes to the bleeders at the wheels, most people just open them and let the fluid squirt. Not only will this result in slippery puddles on the floor, the fluid can shoot farther than you might expect--think about the 2500-plus psi of line pressure on some ABS-equipped cars. Brake fluid is a pretty effective paint remover, and it really burns when you get it in your eye. Wear eye protection.

One convenient setup is a tube and transparent bottle kept half full of fresh fluid. There are also inexpensive 1-man bleeder hoses that contain a 1-way valve to eliminate the possibility of air being drawn back in when you release the pedal.

The bleeder cups and hoses that are often included in manual vacuum pump kits, such as those from Mighty Vac, work well. Once again, you can see what you're getting, and you don't have to keep climbing into the seat to pump the pedal.

You should also be aware of special procedures. For example, on Teves Mark II ABS systems, you can't get fluid to the rear brakes unless you turn the key on and then apply the pedal slightly. Be sure to check the shop manual if your vehicle has an antilock braking system.

Finally, there's the bleeding sequence. Since you're supposed to do the longest line in the circuit first, the traditional order is right rear, left rear, right front and left front. But with the diagonally split systems you'll find mostly on fwd cars, the order is right rear, left front, left rear then right front. ABS-equipped cars may have special procedures to follow.

Bubbles collecting in high spots in the brake system need to be removed by opening the bleeder valves to flush them out.

Bench bleed a master cylinder to get air out before installing it into the vehicle.

How It Works: The Dual Master Cylinder

Whether you call it the dual, split or tandem master cylinder, it has been used on every car sold in this country since 1967, although Cadillac had it in '62. Even so, most people don't understand its construction and operation. A typical modern specimen is of the composite variety--aluminum with a plastic reservoir--but iron 1-piece units are still around on older vehicles. Two pistons ride in the bore, and here's where we encounter some potentially confusing terminology. The rear piston is the primary, the one in the front is the secondary. This apparent misnaming resulted because the rear piston is the first to receive the signal from the brake pedal, so it does make a certain amount of sense. Kind of. Each piston has a primary cup seal at its front and a secondary at its rear. In normal braking, the pushrod from the booster forces the primary piston forward. No pressure is created until the primary seal covers the compensating or vent port from the reservoir, but once it does fluid is trapped in the chamber between the pistons and it becomes a solid column. Pressure is routed from this chamber to two wheels. A combination of the trapped fluid and the primary piston coil spring bears on the secondary piston, to which the line to the other two wheels is attached. The replenishing ports allow fluid to move freely between the chambers behind both pistons' primary cups and the reservoir, determined by demand and expansion and contraction from temperature changes. If a hose lets go or a saboteur has sawed through one of the brake lines, the other half will still provide a means of decelerating the vehicle, albeit with a lower pedal and reduced stopping power. This protective function is, of course, the dual master's reason for being.

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June 2019 Issue

Abnormal brake pedal diagnosis.

By Roy Dennis Ripple

A customer may complain of a brake pedal that ‘feels funny.’ It's your job to determine whether it’s due to aerated and/or contaminated brake fluid, excessive pedal travel or any other cause.

Vehicles normally respond to our commands in a fairly predictable manner. When we push on the accelerator, we go forward; when we turn the steering wheel, we change direction; and when we press the brake pedal, we stop. Of all the things we ask of our vehicles, “please stop” is the most important request. The brake pedal should give the driver a reassuring feel that says, “I got this.”

The brake pedal is the driver’s physical connection to the brake system, providing feedback that the driver uses to determine if there’s a problem with his brakes. Spongy, mushy and squishy are just a few of the terms that a customer might use to describe negative brake pedal feedback. Sometimes these concerns can be tricky to diagnose due to the numerous failures that can cause an unacceptable brake pedal feel.

The first step in diagnosing a low brake pedal concern is to determine the type of low brake pedal issue you’re dealing with, and if other symptoms are present. It might be a good idea to forgo the road if you’re uncomfortable with the function of the brakes and settle for a parking lot cruise instead.

Besides a low or mushy pedal, note if the brakes pull, squeak or pulsate. Does the pedal slowly drift to the floor when at a stop, or does it stop solid, but too close to the floor? Determine if one or more wheels are locking up, and note if the red or amber brake warning lamps are illuminated. All of this information will aid in your diagnosis.

A low brake pedal is always caused by either a hydraulic or a mechanical malfunction. When a mechanical malfunction is the cause, it’s due to a component moving past the range of motion for which it was designed. A good example of this is out-of-adjustment rear brake shoes. The universally accepted specification for brake shoe-to-drum clearance is .015 in. Every thousandth of an inch over spec causes excess brake pedal travel. Less than .025 in. travel at the master cylinder pushrod can equal about ½ in. at the pedal. Every little bit of unnecessary movement adds up.

Another example is a caliper piston that retracts too far into the bore when disengaged. Rear calipers with integral parking brakes are notorious for this. This causes the piston to travel further than designed to initiate contact between the inboard pad and the rotor. This excess travel can translate into a heap of movement at the brake pedal.

Hydraulic concerns present the biggest challenge in low brake pedal diagnosis. The smallest amount of air trapped anywhere in the system will have a big effect on brake pedal feel. Brake fluid converts the energy applied to the pedal into the force required to engage the brakes. This happens because fluids are compressible only to a very small degree, so any pressure applied to a liquid is transferred to all portions of the liquid and to the walls of the container it occupies. Since air is very compressible, air creates a nice, soft cushion for the fluid to lean on, ruining any chance of achieving solid hydraulic pressure.

Use the information you acquired during the road test to guide your initial visual inspection. Watch all the calipers move while an assistant pumps the brake pedal. Worn caliper pins or incorrectly installed brake pads can cause the caliper to flex side to side. This lateral movement uses up brake pedal travel. Be cautious of brake pads that are location-specific, or that need to line up with a locating pin during installation. If these pads are incorrectly installed, they’ll cause the caliper to flex.

While you’re eyeballing the calipers, make sure they’re on the correct side. When a caliper is installed on the wrong side, the bleeder valve will be below the inlet. Since air rises to the top, good luck bleeding that caliper. Check meticulously for an external leak. Brake fluid leaks don’t always present themselves as drops that puddle in the driveway. Just a little seepage at a fitting can cause big trouble at the pedal. Don’t forget to look behind the wheel cylinder boots while checking for leaks; there should be no fluid there.

During your visual inspection, also watch the rubber hoses as a helper pumps the brake pedal. Look for a bulge in the hose that appears under pressure, then disappears when the pedal is released. I’ve seen hoses twist while pressurized due to a defect at the union where the rubber hose meets the metal crimp. Excess hose movement causes excess pedal movement.

Most negative brake pedal feedback issues fall into one or more of the following categories:

•A pedal that stops hard at the bottom but has excess play at the top is usually the result of a master cylinder or pushrod issue. •A pedal that’s spongy or mushy can be caused by air intrusion, contaminated brake fluid or a mechanical component moving beyond its designed range of motion. •A pedal that continues to move toward the floor when applied is caused by a loss of hydraulic pressure, which can be caused by an external leak or an internally leaking component. Contaminated brake fluid can also cause a brake pedal to drift downward.

An occasional exception to these rules—there’s always an exception—is the antilock brake system (ABS) hydraulic control unit (HCU). A defective HCU will create symptoms that feel like air intrusion or a pressure loss and can really complicate your diagnosis.

Let’s look at a brake pedal that stops hard at the bottom but has excess play at the top. A good way to determine if there’s too much pushrod travel is to loosen the master cylinder-to-power booster attaching hardware. Have an assistant hold the loose master cylinder firmly against the booster while you slowly apply the brake pedal. Determine how far the pedal moves before your helper feels the push on the master cylinder. Excessive pushrod play could be caused by a weak or broken master cylinder bore spring that’s not returning the piston all the way to the back of the bore, or it could be a pushrod or booster issue. Remember, a little play at the pushrod is a lot at the pedal.

Many automakers use an adjustable pushrod. This adjustment is set at the factory and shouldn’t have to be messed with. If you need to adjust the pushrod, something’s wrong.

We once serviced a Ford Escape with excessive brake pedal travel at the top. Loosening the master cylinder determined that we lost about 3 in. of pedal travel before the piston moved. We removed the master cylinder and discovered that the small dome-shaped piece that was pressed into the end of the pushrod, which fits into the master cylinder bore, was missing, and laying at the bottom of the booster. This added almost ¼ in. of travel to the pushrod.

Diagnosing a spongy, mushy brake pedal issue can sometimes be frustrating as well as time-consuming. Here’s an example of how important the initial road test is when diagnosing a spongy brake pedal.

While we were road-testing a vehicle with a low, spongy brake pedal, we noticed that the brakes pulled to the left. That told us that the left front and right front calipers were not applying evenly. Using the results from the road test, we started our visual inspection at the front calipers. Both front wheels were spinning freely and both stopped spinning when the brakes were applied. There was no excessive movement in either caliper or hose during brake application, and the brake pads were a healthy 9mm, with nice, beefy rotors.

Since the road test suggested there was an issue with the front brakes, it only made sense to check the front calipers for air. We removed a nice pocket of air from the right front caliper, which temporarily fixed the pedal. I say “temporarily” because we found no reason for that caliper to be holding air, as there was no sign that it was recently disassembled. Caliper piston seals and wheel cylinder cup seals can replicate a one-way check valve. Fluid can’t get out but air can get in. So we replaced the caliper. This scenario reinforces the importance of gathering information during the road test. If we didn’t feel the brake pull, we wouldn’t have started our diagnosis at the front calipers.

Unfortunately, it’s not always that simple. If you’re faced with a low, mushy pedal and the visual inspection yields no clues, it’s time to break out the blockers. Blocking off sections of the brake system (not individual components) is the surest way to find the cause of the problem. Thexton Manufacturing makes a master cylinder plug kit (Part No. 803P) that can also be used on HCUs. It’s important to use quality plugs when blocking brake pressure. A small leak at a plug will yield erroneous results.

Always start by blocking the master cylinder ports. If the master cylinder is good, the pedal should be rock hard—barely moving—with the ports blocked. If the brake pedal moves at all, the master cylinder is leaking internally, there’s a pushrod issue or the brake fluid is contaminated.

If the master cylinder is good, most diagnostic procedures recommend blocking the HCU ports next. The problem is that the HCU tends to be hard to access, and the fittings are usually tough to get a wrench on due to their proximity to each other. So in the spirit of streamlined diagnosis, it makes sense to check the easier-to-access components first, which would be the wheels.

Block each wheel individually at the steel line, before the rubber hose; this way, you’re taking the hoses, calipers and wheel cylinders out of the equation. Do not block off the calipers by using vise grips to crimp the rubber hoses. Damaging a rubber brake hose could cause it to work like a one-way valve, allowing pressure to be applied to the caliper but not to bleed off, causing a perpetually applied brake caliper. The Thexton block-off kit contains only male fittings, and you need a female fitting to block the steel line. Attaching a brass union to the male plug works great. Test the pedal after blocking each wheel. We found a right rear caliper on a Ford Explorer that was causing a low, spongy pedal using this method. We never did identify the actual cause of the caliper malfunction. It wasn't leaking, the pins were sturdy, no air, all looked fine. But the pedal came right up when we blocked it off. We replaced it; problem fixed.

If you find no problem at the wheels, you’ll need to access the HCU. It’s best to block all the outlet ports on the HCU at the same time. This is a lot of work just for a diagnosis, but at this point there’s very little choice.

If the pedal is still low with all the HCU outlet ports blocked, before passing sentence on the HCU, perform a service bleed. HCUs seem to be a favorite resting place for stowaway air. Even if you have no reason to believe that the brake system was opened to atmosphere, you should bleed the HCU before condemning it.

ABS service bleed procedures are performed with a scan tool and vary by manufacturer. Some procedures are as easy as pressing the brake pedal a few times and clicking a button on the scan tool; others will require you to open bleeder valves, which makes a real mess on the shop floor. Whatever the procedure, it’s very important to bleed all the wheels after performing an ABS service bleed.

I started using a brake pressure bleeder a couple of years ago and I’ll never go back to the old pedal-pumping method. Pressure bleeders work great. They attach to the master cylinder reservoir in place of the cap and put the brake system under consistent pressure. The biggest advantage of this—besides not needing an assistant—is that you can open a bleeder valve and just let it flow, pushing all of the air out of a line from the master cylinder to the wheel cylinder or caliper with just one turn of a bleed er valve. If you don’t already have a pressure bleeder, I highly recommend getting one.

It’s important to properly benchbleed a new master cylinder before installation. It can be tough to bleed the air from a master cylinder once it’s installed on the vehicle. Mount the master cylinder firmly in a vise and screw bleeder fittings into the outlet ports. Attach hoses to the fittings, with the other ends of the hoses in the reservoir, submerged in brake fluid. An effective kit for bench-bleeding a master cylinder comes with check valves, which allow the air to be pushed out while not allowing air to get sucked in on the back stroke. Thexton, Dorman, NAPA and others offer such kits.

If you don’t have check valves for the hoses, the procedure will still work. Since the hoses are submerged in brake fluid, fluid from the reservoir rather than air will be pulled back into the master cylinder. The problem is that air that doesn’t make it to the end of the hose gets sucked back into the cylinder on the back stroke. Check valves prevent this from happening.

With the hoses in place, slowly push the piston into the master cylinder, then allow the piston to return to the rest position. You’ll see air bubbles exit the master cylinder through the clear hoses. Do not push the piston past its normal range of motion; doing so can damage the piston seals, rendering the master cylinder useless. When using check valves, all the air is gone within seven to ten strokes. Be sure that the fittings are tight, as a poor seal at a fitting will pull air into the master cylinder.

The heart of a hydraulic brake system is the fluid, and when that goes bad, so does the pedal. Most automotive applications use DOT 3, DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 fluid, all of which are glycol-ether-based. DOT 5 is silicone-based and should not be mixed with glycol-based brake fluids. The most important property of brake fluid is that it maintains a stable viscosity and compressibility throughout its entire operating temperature range—very cold to very hot. The negative property of brake fluid is that it’s hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water.

Water in brake fluid greatly lowers its boiling point. The dry boiling point of DOT 3 is 401ºF. The wet boiling point, defined by the temperature at which the fluid boils after absorbing 3.7% water by volume, is 285ºF. Big difference. Since brake fluid temperatures at the calipers can easily exceed 200ºF, this could be a problem. The fact that water freezes also tends to complicate things a bit. This is why it’s recommended that brake fluid be changed every two years.

When brake fluid is contaminated with water it turns a darker color. If the brake fluid looks contaminated, or if you’re diagnosing a vehicle that’s more than two years old, recommend a brake fluid flush. Use a pressure bleeder or brake fluid flush machine to push all the old fluid out through the bleeder valves. Be sure to check all the bleeder valves before selling the brake flush. If you think the valves are going to break off, you need to know this beforehand.

A couple of more things: A customer might describe an intermittent false ABS activation event as a low brake pedal. But if the pedal feels fine to you, check for DTCs in the ABS module. Also, contaminated fluid can damage an HCU. Brake fluid is designed to protect metal brake parts against corrosion, an attribute it loses when weakened by water. So when replacing an HCU, it’s imperative to flush the fluid.

It seems that the furthest thing from anyone’s mind as he’s driving down the road is the brake system. The song on the radio or the setting of the climate control system occupy more brain space than the brakes do. So maybe problems like a low brake pedal and/or noisy brakes should be looked upon as an important safety warning. It’s the brake system whispering, “Hey, remember me?” to the procrastinator who should plan on getting his brakes checked very soon.

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Find a manual, troubleshooting: common brake issues and causes, you are here.

Troubleshooting your car's brakes is actually pretty easy, and is simply the result of having the right knowledge combined with an intelligent, systematic approach. And once you've worked out what's wrong, fixing it is often easy with the help of your Haynes manual .

The brakes on your car are probably the most important system, and due to the difficult job they do and how often they are used, they are also one of the most likely to wear and need service. Even when everything is working properly with your brakes, and nothing is worn out, they can suddenly start making disconcerting noises or develop a shudder under use. Modern cars use a power assist (vacuum or otherwise) hydraulic system, with disc brakes on the front wheels, and discs or drums on the back. All modern cars come with sophisticated antilock braking systems (ABS) and brake based stability control, which complicates some aspects of troubleshooting and repair, but those systems will inform you when there is a problem and default to the old, simple system. There is also typically a separate, mechanical parking/emergency brake, either cable or electrically operated, that works only on the rear wheels.

Before we get into the specifics of brakes and their problems, you may want to look at some of the basic rules for troubleshooting in general, as written in the beginning of every Haynes manual: Troubleshooting 101

Much like our earlier examination of clutch issues, there are two general failure modes for brakes: They aren't engaging well enough, or they aren't disengaging. Then there are minor issues such as brake squealing, brake shudder/pulsing, burning smells, leaking fluids, pulling to one side, etc.

Brakes not working well

Even today, your brakes can fail completely, but there are failsafes built into the system to prevent that from happening in most cases. Every car since 1968 has had redundant hydraulic systems, not to mention the parking/emergency brake, to prevent complete brake failure. The master cylinder actually contains two pistons and seals, which in simpler systems controlled the front and back brakes separately, or the diagonally opposite wheels, so at worse you would only lose half your brakes.

Soft Pedal  - The brake pedal is easy to push but there is less braking.

• Low brake fluid
• Air in brake fluid
• Bad master cylinder
• Bad caliper/wheel cylinder
• Blown brake line
• Bad residual valve
• Fluid leak in system
• Boiled brake fluid
• Bad wheel bearing

The first thing to check with any brake issue is the fluid level and condition in the master cylinder reservoir. If there is a leak somewhere the fluid level may be so low as to make even the redundant system ineffective. If there is fluid, but it is below the full indication, that may indicate that the friction material on the pads or shoes,or the rotors or drums themselves, may be worn beyond effectiveness.

If there is plenty of fluid in evidence, check if it is hot; repeated hard use, towing, descending a steep hill, or a dragging caliper can boil the fluid. DOT 3 brake fluid should not boil until it gets above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, but old brake fluid that has absorbed water can boil at as little as 284 degrees, which is why it needs to be changed every other year.

Brake hydraulics are a sealed system, so there should not be air in the lines, but if after service you have a sponge pedal that is the most likely cause. A bad master cylinder can introduce air into the lines, as can a failure at a caliper or wheel cylinder. The residual valve (often in the master cylinder or proportioning valve) keeps a small amount of pressure in the brake lines so the pedal doesn't have to travel so far until initial engagement; a failure here can be difficult to pinpoint.

Another uncommon cause of a soft pedal and long travel, is a bad wheel bearing, which is unrelated to the brakes except for being in the vicinity of the rotors. The failing bearing allows the hub to move around, effectively pushing the brake pads back into the caliper as far as it can.

Hard Pedal  - It takes much more pressure to get the same amount of pedal travel and braking force.

• Bad power booster
• Vacuum hose leak
• Bad check valve
• Collapsed vacuum hose
• Seized caliper
• Extremely worn brake pads

Most instances of a hard pedal come down to a failure in the power boost system, whether vacuum based or hydro-boost (used mostly on diesels, we won't be covering it here). The power booster uses engine vacuum to assist your leg when applying the brakes, and is nearly universal in modern cars. If it the booster, check valve, or vacuum hose is bad, it will likely also cause a vacuum leak and rough engine idle as well, but an engine with a bad valve or head gasket can also cause low vacuum which can effect the brake boost.

Another cause of a hard brake pedal can be a brake caliper that is stuck or seized. Typically a seized caliper or pads will cause a burning smell, a pull to one side, and dragging at one wheel, but it is possible for it to stick without those, and effectively lessening your braking by nearly half (if it is a front wheel, which provide 75% of the braking). Wearing your pads down to the metal baking plates will also result in a very "wooden" brake pedal as well, as there is not as much friction when it is metal on metal, and they have to clamp harder to slow you down; the horrible grinding noise is usually an indication before the hard pedal.

Brakes hanging up/dragging

The other major way brakes act up is when they fail to disengage completely in one way or another. A common symptom of this type of braking issue is a burning smell from the amount of heat the hung up brake generates. Seldom does this result in a car that won't move at all, but driving with the brakes dragging is unsafe and will result in even more damage in a short amount of time if not repaired.

Some of the cause of brakes dragging on one or more wheels can be:

• Seized caliper/pads
• Seized parking brake cable
• Rusted rotor/drum
• Clogged master cylinder return hole
• Pinched/collapsed brake line

A seized caliper or brake pads that have become jammed in the caliper is probably the most common failure of this type, and can occur due to age, rust, and salt used on winter roads. Luckily, changing a brake caliper is not a hard job, and can be accomplished in about an hour. The same factors can cause cable operated parking brakes to jam up as well, requiring a replacement of the parking brake cable. The way to prevent these issues is to avoid driving in deep puddles, or areas where salt is used on the roads, but if that isn't an option, be sure to clean the wheels and underside of the car often in winter.

Typically rusted rotors or drums only happen when a car has been sitting for a long period. If you are trying to bring a project car back to life, but can't get it to roll, chances are this is the problem.

A clogged fluid return hole in the master cylinder can cause all four wheels to drag, because the fluid sent to the wheels when you press the pedal can't return and let the pressure off. In a similar vein, a pinched hard brake line, or a rubber line that has started to come apart internally can cause the same problem, though localized to one or two wheels.

Other brake issues

• Shudder/vibration/pulsing under hard or repeated braking - This is caused by warped/bent rotors, or sometimes just from a localized buildup of pad material on the rotor surface. Resurfacing the rotors, grinding them smooth and flat again, can fix the issue if it isn't too bad, but often warped rotors got that way because they were overheated, and they will warp again when heated.
• Squealing/howling/squeaking noise  - Typically, an annoying high pitched noise coming from the brakes is the metal "wear indicator" tabs, meant to alert you when there is less than 25% of the pad left. Sometimes brakes can become noisy because of a glaze on the pads from stop and go traffic, which can be fixed with a few hard applications of the brakes to clean it off. Finally, because of the different friction materials, manufacturer tolerances, and random wear factors, pads can suddenly start making noise because they resonate in the range they vibrate at during use. Anti-squeal paste tries to fix this by sticking the pad to the caliper piston, raising the resonance outside of this range.
• Sinking pedal  - If while sitting at a stop you find the pedal slowly sinking to the floor with your foot on it, you have a master cylinder that is just starting to go bad, or a leak somewhere in the system. But if no leak can be found, it is most likely just one of the rubber seals withing the master cylinder allowing fluid and pressure to sneak by.

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What Causes Long Brake Pedal Travel?

Author Edith Carli

Posted Jul 16, 2022

There are a few possible causes for long brake pedal travel. One possibility is that the brakes have become adjusted too loose and need to be tightened. Another possibility is that the brake pads have become worn and need to be replaced. In some cases, the problem may be with the brake line and it may need to be bled. If the problem is with the master cylinder, it may need to be replaced.

What are the main causes of long brake pedal travel?

Why does brake pedal travel increase with wear on the brake pads, how can you tell if your brake pads are wearing out.

There are a number of reasons why your brake pedal might have a long travel. The most common reasons are:

1) Worn out brake pads: Over time, your brake pads will wear down and need to be replaced. When this happens, your brake pedal will have a longer travel because there is less material to stop the wheels from turning.

2) Leaking brake fluid: If your brake system is leaking fluid , then there will be less pressure available to stop the wheels from turning. This will cause your brake pedal to have a longer travel.

3) Air in the brake lines: If there is air in the brake lines, then it will take longer for the pressure to build up and stop the wheels from turning. This will cause your brake pedal to have a longer travel.

4) Worn out brake rotors: Over time, your brake rotors will wear down and need to be replaced. When this happens, your brake pedal will have a longer travel because there is less material to stop the wheels from turning.

5) Worn out brake calipers: Over time, your brake calipers will wear down and need to be replaced. When this happens, your brake pedal will have a longer travel because there is less pressure available to stop the wheels from turning.

One reason brake pedal travel may increase with wear on the brake pads is due to the wore down brake pad material pressing against the brake rotor . As the brake pad wears down, there is less material to grip the rotor and slow the wheel down. The less material there is, the more pressure is needed to get the same slowing effect, which means the pedal has to travel further down. In addition, the metals shavings and dust from the brake pads can accumulate on the caliper pistons and in the caliper fluid, which can also contribute to increased pedal travel.

If your brake pads are wearing out, you will likely notice a decrease in braking power, increased brake pedal travel, or abnormal brake noise when you press the brake pedal. You may also see brake dust on your wheels or notice that your brake pads are thinner than usual. If you suspect your brake pads are wearing out, it's important to have them inspected and replaced by a qualified technician as soon as possible.

How can you prevent long brake pedal travel?

One way to prevent long brake pedal travel is to have your brakes checked regularly. By having your brakes checked, you can identify any potential issues that could cause your brake pedal to travel further than it should. Additionally, you can make sure that your brakes are properly adjusted. Properly adjusted brakes will provide the necessary stopping power without requiring excessive pedal travel .

Another way to prevent long brake pedal travel is to avoid riding the brakes. Riding the brakes is when you keep your foot on the brake pedal for an extended period of time, which can cause the brakes to overheat and wear down. This can lead to reduced braking power and increased pedal travel . If you find yourself needing to brake frequently, it is best to take your foot off the pedal periodically to allow the brakes to cool.

Lastly, always allow plenty of stopping distance between you and the car in front of you. By giving yourself more time to stop, you can avoid any situations where you may need to brake suddenly or forcefully, which can lead to long pedal travel.

By following these tips, you can help prevent long brake pedal travel. Remember to have your brakes checked regularly, avoid riding the brakes, and allow plenty of stopping distance to help keep your brakes in good condition and your pedal travel to a minimum.

What are the consequences of long brake pedal travel?

When the brake pedal is depressed, the plunger in the master cylinder is forced down, which in turn forces fluid from the master cylinder through the brake lines and into the slave cylinders at the wheels. The fluid pressure acts on the pistons in the slave cylinders, forcing them outward. This in turn forces the brake shoes or pads against the rotating brake drums or discs, causing friction that slows or stops the vehicle.

If the brake pedal travel is too long, it can cause a number of problems. First, it can cause the brakes to overheat, as the fluid will be forced through the system too quickly and will not have time to dissipate the heat. This can lead to brake fade, wherein the fluid begins to boil and the brakes become less effective. Additionally, long brake pedal travel can cause the brakes to wear out prematurely, as the pads and shoes will be forced to work harder to slow or stop the vehicle. Finally, long brake pedal travel can be dangerous, as it can cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle if the brakes are applied too hard or too suddenly.

How does long brake pedal travel affect braking performance?

Brake pedal travel is the distance the pedal moves from the resting position to the point where the brakes engage. The longer the pedal travel, the more distance the pedal must move before the brakes engage. This can affect braking performance in a number of ways.

For one, if the pedal travel is too long, it can make it difficult to engage the brakes quickly in an emergency situation . This can be especially problematic if the driver is not used to the long pedal travel and is not expecting it. Additionally, long pedal travel can make it difficult to modulate the brakes, making it more difficult to slow down gradually.

Finally, long pedal travel can simply make the brakes feel less responsive overall. This can be frustrating for drivers and can make it difficult to operate the vehicle smoothly.

In general,brake pedal travel should be kept to a minimum to ensure optimal braking performance. However, there may be some situations where a longer pedal travel is desirable, such as when towing a heavy load. In these cases, it is important to make sure that the driver is aware of the longer pedal travel and is comfortable with it before setting out on the road.

What are the safety implications of long brake pedal travel?

The safety implications of long brake pedal travel are many and varied. For one, it can lead to longer stopping distances, which can be dangerous in an emergency situation. Additionally, it can make it more difficult to modulate braking pressure, which can also lead to longer stopping distances or even loss of control of the vehicle. Additionally, long brake pedal travel can also lead to increased wear on the brake pads and shoes, as well as increased wear on the brake rotors and drums. This can lead to decreased braking performance over time, and can eventually lead to brake failure. Finally, long brake pedal travel can also be uncomfortable for the driver and can lead to fatigue.

Is long brake pedal travel always a bad thing?

There are a variety of opinions on this subject. Some say that long brake pedal travel is definitely a bad thing, as it can indicate a problem with the brakes themselves. Others say that while it may not be ideal, it isn't necessarily a cause for concern. Ultimately, it is up to the driver to make the decision on whether or not long brake pedal travel is a cause for concern.

There are a few things to keep in mind when considering this question. First, it is important to note that long brake pedal travel can be caused by a variety of things, not just a problem with the brakes themselves. For example, if the brake pads are worn thin , they will require more travel to engage the brakes fully. Additionally, if the brake fluid is low, it can also cause the pedal to travel further than usual. With this in mind, it is important to rule out other potential causes before jumping to the conclusion that there is a problem with the brakes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even if there is a problem with the brakes, it may not be severe. In many cases, long brake pedal travel can be fixed simply by bleeding the brakes or replenishing the brake fluid. As such, it is important to consult with a qualified mechanic before making any decisions.

Ultimately, whether or not long brake pedal travel is a cause for concern is up to the driver. If there are other potential causes that can be ruled out and the driver is comfortable with the brakes, then there is no need for concern. However, if the driver is unsure or uncomfortable with the brakes, it is always best to consult with a qualified mechanic to ensure that there are no underlying issues.

How can you troubleshoot long brake pedal travel?

If you have long brake pedal travel, there are a few things you can do to troubleshoot the issue. First, check the brake fluid level and add fluid if necessary. Next, check the brake pads and replace them if they are worn down. Finally, check the brake calipers and clean or replace them if necessary.

Frequently Asked Questions

Why does my brake pedal travel too far before stopping.

There are several potential causes of a brake pedal that travels too far before stopping. The most common reason is an underlying problem with the braking system itself. Other causes include worn or damaged brake pads, a malfunctioning brake caliper or Lines , or weak or incorrectly installed brakes. Testing your braking system The first step in diagnosing any low brake pedal is to test the braking system. You can do this by putting the car in drive and hitting the pedal hard while turning the wheel to stop the car. If there is no resistance when you hit the pedal, it means that the braking system is either missing or incorrect hardware. If there is some resistance, but it still travels too far before stopping, then you might have a problem with your brake pads or calipers. Testing for these problems requires taking apart the brakes and checking for wear, leaks, and corrosion. In some cases, you may need to replace parts altogether. Common causes of low brake pedals

How do hydraulic brake pads increase pedal travel?

Since brake pads are designed to sit closely against the rotor, increased clearance between them and the braking surface would result in more force being applied to the pedal.

How do I know if my brake pedal is working properly?

If the brake pedal is Firm when the pedals are blocked off with a wrench, the problem is most likely with the brake caliper. If the pedal feels spongy or bowled over when testing it, chances are high that the caliper needs to be replaced.

When does a brake pedal travel too far before stopping?

If the brake pedal travels too far before stopping, it's most likely caused by a problem with the car's braking system. A faulty brake pedal sensor, malfunctioning brake fluid system or worn out brake pads could all cause this issue. In some cases, the car's actual brakes may be inoperable. If you're having trouble braking, have a mechanic check the car's braking performance.

Why does my brake pedal feel like it's going down?

If your brake pedal feels like it's going down before you start to slow, it might be because your brake fluid is low. If the brake fluid level is low, top it off with new fluid and see if that solves the problem.

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Edith Carli

Writer at CGAA

Edith Carli is a passionate and knowledgeable article author with over 10 years of experience. She has a degree in English Literature from the University of California, Berkeley and her work has been featured in reputable publications such as The Huffington Post and Slate. Her focus areas include education, technology, food culture, travel, and lifestyle with an emphasis on how to get the most out of modern life.

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Brakes - Excesive Pedal Travel, HELP!

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I have an '02 6 cyl FWD. I 've recently noticed there is excessive brake pedal travel, goes all the way to the floor, when braking. The fluid level is fine, just below Max. I also checked the front pads they are fine, probably between 50-75% remaining on the pads. I have not bled the brakes as there should not be a reason for air in the lines. Anyone have any ideas?  

pedal I would suspect your brake master cylinder, but I would still suggest bleeding, but you are right, it's unlikely air would just now decide to enter. I assume you have checked for leaks around your disk brake calipers?  

lqueral said: I would suspect your brake master cylinder, but I would still suggest bleeding, but you are right, it's unlikely air would just now decide to enter. I assume you have checked for leaks around your disk brake calipers? Click to expand...

I have a 2004 - It has always done it  

master . The only thing about a leak is that the fluid was not that low. How tough are master cylinders to replace on a Highlander?[/quote] The master can be leaking internally, past the piston seal, so fluid would not actually escape to the outside. I haven't done a HL master, as mine is an 05 with 22k, but it should be straightforward, although there can be some special bleeding procedures to follow or the piston inside the master might not end up centered within it's bore, leading to perhaps a brake or ABS warning light. If you explore this forum, there are service manuals for HL's available for dloading, and I would recommend that you follow the bleeding procedure described within.  

ajwilkens said: I have an '02 6 cyl FWD. I 've recently noticed there is excessive brake pedal travel, goes all the way to the floor, when braking. The fluid level is fine, just below Max. I also checked the front pads they are fine, probably between 50-75% remaining on the pads. I have not bled the brakes as there should not be a reason for air in the lines. Anyone have any ideas? Click to expand...

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Brake pedal excessive travel

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Read some of the threads re above. Brakes have been bled thoroughly following the procedure here on the forum. But still same problem. Is there any way to check for problems with master cylinder and or the servo ? Thanks in anticipation Kenny  

You have pressure bled the system with a diagnostic system in basic settings mode?  

I'm using an aftermarket pressure bleeder but don't have VW diagnostic software and bleeding system. Would you recommend getting this done. ?  

It is impossible to get the system air free without being able to run basic settings.  

Okay thanks will have to get done and I will get back to the forum with the outcome Kenny  

How many times do o through the cycle of ABS bleeding ie, does the program tell you when you have completed the front brake lines and to move to the rear brake lines. Kenny  

On the older Mk20 system it was a 17 step process but on the Mk60 it is open ended so we do three. We also go around the car triggering the basic settings for each wheel and then bleed again but that could be me being obsessive, I am sort of prone to that.  

Thanks Crasher for your reply Sorry but what do you mean by a three step process Excuse my ignorance but VW methods are new to me. Kenny  

We have only ever done this with VCDS so I cannot speak for other systems. Taking your car as an example with the later Mk60 pump (2009/10 we’re very unreliable) you need the following. 1) Car off the floor on all four corners with the wheels off 2) The battery on charge with a good sized charger as the pump takes a lot of current 3) VCDS or similar which allows basic settings 4) A large brake fluid bottle and hose, preferably two 5) A pressure brake bleeder with 1 Bar regulated delivery with a couple of litres fluid 6) An assistant 7) 11mm brake bleed nipple socket or 11mm ring spanner Firstly, we go around all four callipers and let the pressure bleeder run a 1/4 litre per caliper each and at the same time in address 03, output test 3 lets the ABS pump run whilstthe person in the car presses the pedal down and back up ten times. The output test will probably time out and you may need to exit address 04, cycle the ignition, renter 03 and carry on. Then select BasicSettings 04 where VCDS gives you a menu and you select bleeding. You follow the on screen instructions which tells you to hold down the pedal and keep it firmly pressed and after a few seconds the pedal will come back at you with such force that to fight it lifts your bum out the seat but if you don’t fight it, there may be damage, never tried it! The the screen will tell you to shout to your assistant “open” and then press the pedal 10 times and hold the another click makes the pump run for a few seconds and then shout ”close”. You can do this as many times as you like, we do it three times. After this we the operate all four corners in output tests which runs the pump, locks the individual calliper it says and then opens the circuit even though you have pressed the pedal and then locks the calliper. Then you should conduct a road test in a safe place where the brakes can be applied hard enough to trigger the ABS. If you haven’t done the output tests this can bring back excess pedal travel and it is back to bleeding again! I supposed I should do video of how we do it and put it on You Tube but I hate the sound of my own voice and people who show themselves in videos tend to be narcissistic. I think I have covered everything, ask questions if not.  

Crasher said: I think I have covered everything, ask questions if not. Click to expand...

Crasher thanks for the reply, I've got VCDS set up so will follow your instructions. I think a you tube video would be a great idea, you could get an assistant to do the voice over!  

You could also ask why it is only ATE design pumps that need this when the almost identical looking Bosch design doesn’t?  

With VCDS it comes up in the display exactly what to do.  

Okay, just to make sure I have understood you when doing the output test on ABS when it says press pedal, pump the pedal 10 times. I've done the ABS module through basic settings where it says press pedal 10 times in the instructions etc. Have never done it through output test. I have checked a version VW workshop manual for the braking bleeding procedure but nothing there about bleeding ABS. Thanks once again for your patience. Kenny  

We only do the pressure bleed output tests because I think it helps, it isn't official.  

Okay Thanks will reply when done  

Okay quick update, Abs pump bled and further bleeding of system with power bleeder and a noticeable improvement with brakes but still not perfect.  

Do it again  

I was planning to, from ABS pump to double bleed of rear brakes followed by each corner using power bleeder.  

• Could it be air entering the system?
• Brakes not properly bled as I doubt they did this bleeding procedure with the software as previous post suggested?
• Caliper pins not sliding?
• but on the other hand when the brakes are working, they bite pretty sharply.
• Master cylinder problem?
• but then the brake fluid should be again low or I am missing something?
• I tested it with the engine off - 3 times pump the pedal - engine on - it sinks - engine off - 3 times pump the pedal - it becomes stiff pedal

Thanks. This is what I was thinking as well. I thought for a second again this morning that the brakes bite pretty well when the pedal is working, the fluid reservoir is full therefore no leaks, the disk and breaks pads have some life in them(logic confirmed by the bite). When the brakes are not working the pedal sinks half way, the car starts to stop and I need to press again the pedal for the brakes to fully engage therefore it must be something related to air or master cylinder or calipers issue. Will start with the basic settings pressure bleed. Thanks again.  

I will book a brake fluid change with VAG specialist as they don't seem to offer basic settings pressure bleed. They said there is no need to do this, they are pressure bleeding with software only if they change an abs pump. They will do a brake fluid change with the pressure machine without attaching any VCDS software or running the basic settings pressure bleed. Do you think this is correct?  

If air has somehow got into the ABS pump then you could run a 205 Litre drum of fluid through there and not get the air out, it is a peculiarity of ATE Mk20 onwards pumps.  

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Excessive brake pedal travel

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Hi, been a guest on forums for years and found them very helpful but became a member to see if anyone can solve this problem. mini one 2002 petrol (my wifes car) took for mot at local bmw garage on way noticed exsessive brake pedal travel. failed mot on this said needed new discs and pads all round. took to mechanic friend who replaced them with non genuine parts. pedal still same failed mot again experienced bmw mechanic said didnt know what problem was could be air in ABS so he bled this using computer to open valves. still same they will take car in for investigation £70 per hour and start replacing parts at my cost until rectified. brakes been pressure bled (used 7 litres of fluid) handbrake adjustment correct according to BMW servo working correctly ABS works, brakes pass MOT standard but pedal travel too far any ideas? cheers  

I have a similar problem 2002 Mini One.............our other Mini One also 2002 has minimal brake travel and more powerful brakes.  

sorry to hear someone else has the same problem, hope to remedy the problem soon MOT runs out in 2 weeks!  

cheers for the info will probably take mini to another mot testing station who are more forgiving as like you say brakes work correctly and are safe will let you know if i find a soloution to the problem  

You might want to inquire about a part number/spec change on the master cylinder for an 03 and later. Because you both reference an 02 it makes me wonder if the bore of the later car was increased a very slight amount to firm it up.  

Brake Master Cylinder I have an '02 Cooper with after market rotors. Suffered from a low pedal when the brakes got hot. Replaced the master Cylinder in 2007 so I assume it would be the latest part but did not improve things. The car stops really well despite approx 30mm of pedal travel. Try bleeding the brakes an hour before the MOT. I have tried EBC Red pads for track days and EBC green for Hillclimbs and road use. Not impressed at all. Gone back to standard pads on aftermarket slotted rotors. This seems to be the best option for good performance hot and cold.  

i have the same travel on my 2001 cooper now i have tested my brakes had looked them all over i have alot of pad left on and discs look good. i have the pedal travel but my friend MOTS's do it will pass anyway if the brakes are sufficient which miner definatly are as they stopped me having an accident the other day! heading along my local a road the car in front f me had a blow out, spun out and hit the car next to him i hit my brakes and went from 70-0 in a matter of feet :L soo the pedal travel doesnt seem to be a problem!  

I have just got a 05 cooper, and I'm dissapointed with the ammount of brake pedal travel. Pads and discs are good all round, and the mini dealer replaced fluid before delivery. (and gave it a new MOT). I think the auto adjusters on the rear calipersmay not be working well. Has anyone had this before???  

I still have the long pedal travel but have just learn't to live with it............does not seem to affect braking efficiency.  

I've just had new after Market gtt rear discs, pads and as one was no good: a pair of new non BMW brake Calipers. The brake travel is awful, it's like there's no servo. Plus, the Change Pads dashboard light is illuminated as the gtt pads don't have the gap for the sensor. Gtt said the light would be cured after 15 revolutions (of what????). They weren't like this before. Any advise? Simon.  

to fix this you need to replace the abs unit itself. bleeding it will not make a diffrence at all! Also it should NOT fail the mot on this alone (long pedal travel) unless its got a imbalence or judder or not enough pressure etc to go with it.  

Abs is working perfectly. Can't be that I'm afraid.  

looks like there is a whole bunch of us experiencing this long pedal travel issue which we all know is not due to air in the system or defective discs or pads or anything like that. Its like the first bit of travel is taking up some 'slack' in the component chain somewhere before the fluid actually starts to be compressed by the master cylinder?? As the other posts say, the brakes still work absolutley fine, it just does not feel right and it increases brake reaction time which is not as safe as it could be. There must be an answer out there somewhere. It does seem to be early 2000's 1st generation Minis that are affected. Piecing together info from other miniforums, the North American one is very good, this seems to happen when brake pads are replaced. One guy actually put his old OEM pads back in after his pedal travel increased when he fitted some 'performance' pads and his travel returned to normal!! i wonder if its a brake pad thing??  

KATENKEITH said: Hi, It does sound like bubbles in the system despite the pressure bleeding. The lines to the rears go up and over the fuel tank and can be VERY difficult to eradicate any air bubbles as they tend to "hide " in the highest part of the sysem. I drive a car in the UK John Cooper Challenge race series , and we always have this problem with pedal travel despite braided hoses, race fluid and uprated pads.Some cars are worse than others and nobody seems to be able to fix it premanantly.Some guys will bleed the brakes with the front of the car considerably higher than the rear to try get the bubbles out. I have also heard of pressure bleeding a brake system causing problems by "inverting" the seal in the master cylinder giving a similar problem. My suggestion would be to try manually bleeding each line and see if bubbles come out. This may help. Keith Click to expand...

maybe the discs are warn....  

Car is on it's 5th set of discs, current set have done about 400 miles. Changing discs or calipers has never made any difference to the pedal travel. My wife's mini one, by contrast, is still on it's original discs with 53,000 miles on the clock, and it's pedal travel is spot on. It's due to have it's fluid replaced though, and if that changes things, I'll be looking closer at the bleeding process.  

Pedal pumps hard with engine off.  

I have had a problem with this excessive brake travel. Before a v recent brake service my 07 mini ( bought from new) had touch sensitive brakes....always responsive to the slightest of pressure. Now... after front and rear pads changed and also new rear calipers ...the brake pedal travel is so much more. This is troublesome. I now have to press more firmly and its taken some time for the pads to 'bed in' so that I stop in reasonable time. I now seem to have a distance for the pedal to travel before feeling that I am beginning to stop! I suspect the problem is in the use of non mini parts.  

Pads and discs need to time to bed in, give it a few days and then re-assess.  

I read something on another forum that says the dealer diagnostic software can put ABS into bleed mode which opens the valves in ABS unit and lets you get all air out. The other method mentioned was to apply brakes so ABS cuts in and this will help push air past valves, you then need to bleed again and may need to be repeated several times. Dont know if it will help but thought i would mention it.  

Did all that, made no diff at the time. I have noticed an improvement in pedal travel over last few months, only change was new rear calipers. There was a bedding in issue with new discs/pads which improved things, and also maybe I'm getting more used to it. If all else fails, look at the master cylinder. An extreme solution is an M3 master cylinder.  

Hi, Has anyone come up with an answer for the brake pedal travel on the 02 Mini Cooper ? I'm at a loss now and don't won't to just throw money at me car.  

What have you done so far to try to fix it?  

Thanks for the reply I have Bleed all the callipers to death, and checked the sliders on the rear. Think I may try bleeding from the fittings on the abs unit as well. All the pads have plenty of life left, so their ok. With mine I only get excessive travel when the engine is running.?  

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• Non-Boating Technical Topics

Causes for excessive brake pedal travel?

• Thread starter harringtondav
• Start date Nov 25, 2018

harringtondav

• Nov 25, 2018

'99 Durango. East central IA rust bucket, but it runs well and is a solid tow vehicle. The brake pedal travels farther than when new to grab. It holds OK with no leak down, but is a little too close to bottom for comfort. I previously replaced all rusted out brake lines, and bled them well, I think. Pumping the pedal doesn't raise the grab point. Bad master cylinder? Bad vacuum booster? .....? The old dog is worth hanging on to for two tow trips a year.  

• Nov 26, 2018

I had a similar problem on my 2004 Explorer. You can Google some simple tests to see if the brake booster is working OK. On my car it turned out that the disc pads had become rusted into the caliper, so only one side of the pads was doing the braking. I'd check the pads/calipers to see if everything is working properly.  

Scott Danforth

Grumpy vintage moderator still playing with boats.

potential causes: air in the line somewhere leaking master cylinder leaking caliper or wheel cylinder  

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian

Scott Danforth said: potential causes: air in the line somewhere leaking master cylinder leaking caliper or wheel cylinder Click to expand...

A bad brake booster will result in a hard pedal with increased pedal pressure needed to stop the vehicle. Do you ABS on all 4 wheels or just the rears? You can't bleed the former without cycling the ABS pump, which requires an advanced scan tool.  

Supreme Mariner

Not knowing your setup, I would check the disks/pads in the rear for wear and look for any signs of leakage on the calibers or wheel cylinders. And the brake power booster is very easy to check. You could have a leaking master cylinder that is allowing bypass from one section to the other. And there would be no sign of any leaking fluid with that as well. Just some ideas.  

NYBo said: A bad brake booster will result in a hard pedal with increased pedal pressure needed to stop the vehicle. Do you ABS on all 4 wheels or just the rears? You can't bleed the former without cycling the ABS pump, which requires an advanced scan tool. Click to expand...

Vice Admiral

harringtondav said: Front disc w/ABS in the front. Rear drums. I need to pull a drum to remove a cross threaded wheel stud. I'll see if the wear adjuster is working correctly. Click to expand...

• Dec 12, 2018

Tad old but could led more insight. Ive done the below on several fords, and believe it applys to alot of brake boosters. But first ensure the brake system is not at fault, and everything is good. I had vehicles were after full brake work, the pedal still was low. Google items about the Booster actuator screw. Unbolting the booster uncovers a small acutuator screw the moves when you push the pedal. Adjusting this screw out in very small 1/4 turn increments and then testing, can raise the heigh of pedal and reduce travel when the brakes actually engage. Too far and you will drag pads. Do a bit of research and you will find what I'm talkng about. Done it on several vehicles and like the "higher" pedal feel.  

• Dec 13, 2018

rothfm said: Tad old but could led more insight. Ive done the below on several fords, and believe it applys to alot of brake boosters. But first ensure the brake system is not at fault, and everything is good. I had vehicles were after full brake work, the pedal still was low. Google items about the Booster actuator screw. Unbolting the booster uncovers a small acutuator screw the moves when you push the pedal. Adjusting this screw out in very small 1/4 turn increments and then testing, can raise the heigh of pedal and reduce travel when the brakes actually engage. Too far and you will drag pads. Do a bit of research and you will find what I'm talkng about. Done it on several vehicles and like the "higher" pedal feel. Click to expand...

• Dec 15, 2018

A just your rear brakes and or un size your caliper slide bolts . Only if you have no leaks and you didn't allow your master to run dry or about dry . Booster problems usually give you rock hard pedal.